• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Why no signature verification option?
0

19 posts in this topic

So cbcs offers a signature verification option which is their Red Label. How come CGC has not looked into something like this?

In todays Market, if I have a Spawn #1 signed my Todd, if I had cbcs red label would it sell for a higher price than if I had it green labeled?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:39 AM, Ladic said:

So cbcs offers a signature verification option which is their Red Label. How come CGC has not looked into something like this?

In todays Market, if I have a Spawn #1 signed my Todd, if I had cbcs red label would it sell for a higher price than if I had it green labeled?

Do you know that CGC hasn't looked into something like this? 

I would say play devil's advocate to yourself and try to think of why CGC isn't into this.   You can probably think up some reasons, focus on how the CGC SS program makes their money and why. 

 

Some other related questions that I can't find answers to and won't put the barest minimum of thought towards-

Why can't I get steak at Mcdonald's?  Its all beef anyways right?

Why doesn't Lebron play hockey?

How come I'm not taller?

Why do avocados cost more in Minnesota than in Mexico?

Does R Kelly really believe he can fly?  Can he fly?

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/26/2018 at 7:39 AM, Ladic said:

So cbcs offers a signature verification option which is their Red Label. How come CGC has not looked into something like this?

In todays Market, if I have a Spawn #1 signed my Todd, if I had cbcs red label would it sell for a higher price than if I had it green labeled?

Just recently CBCS and PGX got caught “authenticating” FORGED sketches and signatures. The artists themselves even put the items on blast via their Facebook pages. BleedingCool had a couple articles about forged sketches that got “certified” from Rob Liefeld, Jim Lee, and others!  It’s a very IRRESPONSIBLE way to handle collectibles. It’s not worth the money or risk. I’d stay FAR away from “Red Labels.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a former authenticator for a major firm (as well as working with the largest auction house in the world), it doesn't make any sense for CGC. They would have to hire authenticators and daily they will receive a number of cheap Jack Kirby books with his easy to forge signature along the front, Stan Lee's erratic and simple to duplicate signature, Steve Ditko's, Jerry Siegels and well you know where we are going that. Autograph fraud is such a problem and nothing is being and done and it's only growing. That guy on ebay, Toufelle or whatever his name will be busy at work hoping to trick "the expert/s". It is fairly easy to trick an expert and CGC will get as much flack as the above mentioned, other outfits authenticating bogus items and isn't worth there time and doing the hobby a great service by NOT authenticating unwitnessed books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Brian Hamilton said:

So,  I’m new to CGC. I have several signed comics with COA’s, most purchased from Midtown comics in NYC. Can these be encased with a yellow signature series label? If not, what are my options? 

Same thing as above. You still will get the green labels no matter IF you have COAs.   Seeing is believing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Brian Hamilton said:

So,  I’m new to CGC. I have several signed comics with COA’s, most purchased from Midtown comics in NYC. Can these be encased with a yellow signature series label? If not, what are my options? 

No, they cannot get yellow SS label. For more info, read the posts above in this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The CGC witness program, when everyone is playing above board, is the best program that exists of its kind. When a book is in a yellow label CGC slab, you are 99.9924% guaranteed that someone watched that creator sign that copy, and that there is an unbroken chain of custody from that event to the slab.

CBCS, on the other hand,instead of vigorously protecting and defending the integrity of their "yellow label" program, instead offers strangers the opportunity to submit books that were not witnessed, merely because the submitter happens to be associated with someone the employee knows. When he should be the gatekeeper, he is instead opening the door wide open to potential fraud and abuse.

Nothing is foolproof...but CGC's program is far superior to anything else out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Brian Hamilton said:

So,  I’m new to CGC. I have several signed comics with COA’s, most purchased from Midtown comics in NYC. Can these be encased with a yellow signature series label? If not, what are my options? 

First off, welcome to the boards. The others have answered your first question. As for your second question, lemme give you some options-

You COULD send them to CGC's competitor for a red label, but it wouldn't be a great use of your money. Case in point: when I first started out, I had a modern comic signed by the writer and artist. I sent it to CGC's competitor for a red label. Approximate cost to me $70, plus shipping there and back. In my situation, it would have been CHEAPER for me to send an unsigned book to a CGC facilitator, get the writer and artist to sign it, then get a yellow signature series label. And if I ever need to sell, a CGC SS book would sell for more than I paid, while the red label will sell for less than what I paid. Beginner mistake by me. 

The fiscally responsible option would be to take your signed Midtown comics and put them in Mylars with the COAs. They still maintain value if you ever want to sell them, but don't spend the money to get them slabbed.

But if you just want them to look cool and don't mind them losing value, then go with either the CGC green label or the competitor's red label. I've done both. But as others have said, at the end of the day, the yellow labels are the way to go. Hope this helps!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/10/2018 at 8:29 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

The CGC witness program, when everyone is playing above board, is the best program that exists of its kind. When a book is in a yellow label CGC slab, you are 99.9924% guaranteed that someone watched that creator sign that copy, and that there is an unbroken chain of custody from that event to the slab.

CBCS, on the other hand,instead of vigorously protecting and defending the integrity of their "yellow label" program, instead offers strangers the opportunity to submit books that were not witnessed, merely because the submitter happens to be associated with someone the employee knows. When he should be the gatekeeper, he is instead opening the door wide open to potential fraud and abuse.

Nothing is foolproof...but CGC's program is far superior to anything else out there.

I totally agree with this - I was very surprised to learn how Voldy is running their yellow label program. Although for individuals who are on the up-and-up, it can be easier to submit your own books and "be your own witness", there's WAY more risk to the program of bad apples taking advantage and fake signatures getting the yellow label. The value of the sig series program is all about trust around the authenticity of the signature - all it takes is one bad story to go public of fakes for the whole thing to come crumbling down. I think CGC understands this, and I'm pleased they're keeping the rigor around its SS program. I can somewhat understand why Voldy, as the newcomer trying to build market share, feels it HAS to offer something more "submitter-friendly" to differentiate or get people to go with them vs CGC, I think this is the wrong way to do it, as it's opened up too much risk in the program IMO.

I'm also totally supportive of CGC never offering a "red label" verification program. Yes that may mean previously signed books will never get a non-qualified label (unless taking a big grade hit), but I think there's something to be said of not associating the CGC brand with anything that could be fraudulent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, CKinTO said:

I totally agree with this - I was very surprised to learn how Voldy is running their yellow label program. Although for individuals who are on the up-and-up, it can be easier to submit your own books and "be your own witness", there's WAY more risk to the program of bad apples taking advantage and fake signatures getting the yellow label. The value of the sig series program is all about trust around the authenticity of the signature - all it takes is one bad story to go public of fakes for the whole thing to come crumbling down. I think CGC understands this, and I'm pleased they're keeping the rigor around its SS program. I can somewhat understand why Voldy, as the newcomer trying to build market share, feels it HAS to offer something more "submitter-friendly" to differentiate or get people to go with them vs CGC, I think this is the wrong way to do it, as it's opened up too much risk in the program IMO.

I'm also totally supportive of CGC never offering a "red label" verification program. Yes that may mean previously signed books will never get a non-qualified label (unless taking a big grade hit), but I think there's something to be said of not associating the CGC brand with anything that could be fraudulent.

I too understand why voldy went the way they did, but I can't see any justification for CGC changing things up now after they've established a trustworthy brand.  If one were to think about the economics for more than a minute, its barely worth having a discussion about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm wondering if it's a matter of money. Does cgc get a cut when they have these " witnessed signings"? I am partial to "Lady Death" comics, and the creator, Brian Pulido will send a card with the comic verifying his signature. Unfortunately,  these get a "qualified" label. I do prefer unsigned comics usually, but wrongly thought there would be a level of expertise that could determine if a signature is fake or not. or at least afford someone in the business the trust that he wouldn't risk his sales by promoting fake signatures. Just a thought, am still happily sending in books for grading.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Mattyhill said:

I'm wondering if it's a matter of money. Does cgc get a cut when they have these " witnessed signings"? I am partial to "Lady Death" comics, and the creator, Brian Pulido will send a card with the comic verifying his signature. Unfortunately,  these get a "qualified" label. I do prefer unsigned comics usually, but wrongly thought there would be a level of expertise that could determine if a signature is fake or not. or at least afford someone in the business the trust that he wouldn't risk his sales by promoting fake signatures. Just a thought, am still happily sending in books for grading.

There is a way to get Pulido SS Labels. See below and follow the instructions carefully.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding why CGC doesn’t do verified signatures: it’s really expensive to start and requires a ton of tech/ test & training data. If they make a mistake, it invalidates their history. CBCS is owned by Beckett which has been perfecting this technique for decades on sports cards. It’s not because CGC has ulterior motives around signings or some such nonsense. CGC is a great grading company (best IMO) but they don’t have the tech to guarantee it and that’s what the G is for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interestingly, CBCS has now discontinued its red label and puts both verified and witnessed signatures in a yellow label (albeit specifying which is which).

This is a good business move for them (given the stigma of red labels), but one that probably dilutes the yellow label for both companies.  Sophisticated collectors know the difference.  Casual collectors may not and may treat the yellow labels of both companies equally, despite the important differences.

Edited by CardiacKid1
Grammar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/27/2018 at 10:32 AM, Monstertruck97 said:

I see so many questionable signatures that are verified by other slabbed comic companies that makes the assurance by CGC a breath of fresh air and unique in this hobby. 

How do you know they are fake?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0