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Trimmed or Miscut?
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Started by blue_hero_8,

38 posts in this topic

James J Johnson

James J Johnson

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

I didn't even look at any of the links. I just viewed this thread to see if this was the same question that I answered in the BA forum.

I wouldn't deal with PGX or tell anybody else to do so. Like anybody else who has been paying attention, I don't trust them for many reasons. Based on things you've posted, I also wouldn't trust your opinion of a comic.

CGC doesn't make errors on trimming (missing or falsely identifying it)? Of course not! Never have, never will! lol

I don't share your lack of faith in the CGC's ability to detect trim. As far as I can see from the scans, the CGC didn't reach a wrong decision on trim on the two blue label 181s posted by the OP. We're talking about these three 181s, right? Not books the CGC graded 10 or 15 years ago. But PGX did miss the trimmed cover, and that's a good example of an error. Not possibly, maybe, or "that's your opinion, and I don't trust you". Right edge cover trim on that Hulk 181, PGX is a fact That silver age right edge doesn't belong on a mid Bronze book, and you can argue til' the cows come home about my being wrong about everything under the sun, but if you wagered against me on this, you'd be wrong.

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

I don't share your lack of faith in the CGC's ability to detect trim.

You mean trimming? Right, you just lack faith in their ability to detect married covers (because the staple area of a mid-grade book couldn't possibly have any damage unless the cover was replaced 9_9).

36 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

As far as I can see from the scans, the CGC didn't reach a wrong decision on trim on the two blue label 181s posted by the OP. We're talking about these three 181s, right? Not books the CGC graded 10 or 15 years ago.

No, in general. 10 years ago or 10 days ago. They may be more likely to get it right than most people, but that isn't perfection. Of course, they don't claim perfection.

36 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

But PGX did miss the trimmed cover, and that's a good example of an error. Not possibly, maybe, or "that's your opinion, and I don't trust you". Right edge cover trim on that Hulk 181, PGX is a fact That silver age right edge doesn't belong on a mid Bronze book, and you can argue til' the cows come home about my being wrong about everything under the sun, but if you wagered against me on this, you'd be wrong.

I wouldn't wager against a PGX book being trimmed, period. That doesn't mean you are right about this or anything else.

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James J Johnson

James J Johnson

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

You mean trimming? Right, you just lack faith in their ability to detect married covers (because the staple area of a mid-grade book couldn't possibly have any damage unless the cover was replaced 9_9).

No, in general. 10 years ago or 10 days ago. They may be more likely to get it right than most people, but that isn't perfection. Of course, they don't claim perfection.

I wouldn't wager against a PGX book being trimmed, period. That doesn't mean you are right about this or anything else.

You're so sure I'm always wrong, then it should be easy to prove it, right? So prove me wrong instead of merely going on, and on, and on, and on, and on, etc., following each and every one of my posts declaring whatever I write to be wrong. And how threatened you must feel to have to do that. It should be a feather in my cap that I'm making you feel that way, merely by pointing out the obvious that escapes many, but it's not enjoyable to me. It saddens me and my apologies for making you uncomfortable enough to have to be so confrontational and defensive over it on a forum where all should feel encouraged to share. 

So let's agree to do this. A very diplomatic and logical solution. You say that "I have no idea what I'm talking about", so let's show us all just how stupid I really am. Let's put the cards on the table, what do you say? Buy it. Submit it to CGC. Money where your mouth is, or some such thing? And when it comes back with a blue label, not only will you have made money, a blue label CGC worth far more and more marketable than a PGX blue label, but as a side benefit, you'll get to show us just how utterly stupid I really am and how little I know about that right edge or anything else in life for that matter. This is a no brainer, right? It's a win-win situation for you if you buy it and submit it to the CGC.

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James J Johnson

James J Johnson

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

You can't even read. :facepalm:

And of course I can't read. Or write. What I'm doing is just stringing together random letters, spaces, and punctuation marks; then I hope they form some type of cohesive grammar to fool everyone into thinking that I can read or write, which is my main goal. Not the sharing knowledge of and learning about the hobby. So far I've been amazingly lucky in stringing random characters into words and sentences, right? Amazing, huh. See. You put those dozen monkeys typing at random on a dozen typewriters and quite possibly it may only take a day or two instead of a million years to get Shakespeare! If I can do it, I'm sure a monkey can, right? :insane:

At any rate, the discussion of the immeasurable magnitude of my stupidity is way :signofftopic: , so for the sake of the thread and with respect for the OP, maybe we can focus on the subject presented by the OP instead of me? Is that possible?

Edited by James J Johnson
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blue_hero_8

blue_hero_8

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On 6/27/2018 at 10:37 PM, James J Johnson said:

The PGX 8.5 has a right edge that's inconsistent with 1974/5 Marvel production. Highly suspect. No roll, lays flat, and yet, the pages extend beyond the level of the cover. Very unusual. In my opinion, trimmed, front cover only, right edge. The CGC examples are fine.

I looked at this book in person (not the owner) and noticed that it's only the back cover that extends beyond the cover and the other pages. So if it was trimmed then they must've trimmed the cover and every page with exception of the back cover which I don't think would be likely. I haven't seen other examples that had a back cover that extended past all the other pages and the front cover but that's what is happening here.

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James J Johnson

James J Johnson

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, blue_hero_8 said:

I looked at this book in person (not the owner) and noticed that it's only the back cover that extends beyond the cover and the other pages. So if it was trimmed then they must've trimmed the cover and every page with exception of the back cover which I don't think would be likely. I haven't seen other examples that had a back cover that extended past all the other pages and the front cover but that's what is happening here.

I never stated that the pages were cut or the back cover. Just the right edge of the front cover is cut, which of course, exposed the rest of the pages and back cover with the same symmetry of a book manufactured in the Silver age. Go back and take a look at my prior posts. Front cover: only the right edge.

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James J Johnson

James J Johnson

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, blue_hero_8 said:

I looked at this book in person (not the owner) and noticed that it's only the back cover that extends beyond the cover and the other pages. So if it was trimmed then they must've trimmed the cover and every page with exception of the back cover which I don't think would be likely. I haven't seen other examples that had a back cover that extended past all the other pages and the front cover but that's what is happening here.

Here is my first post on this subject copied and pasted from page 1:

"The PGX 8.5 has a right edge that's inconsistent with 1974/5 Marvel production. Highly suspect. No roll, lays flat, and yet, the pages extend beyond the level of the cover. Very unusual. In my opinion, trimmed, front cover only, right edge. The CGC examples are fine."

I still stand by it. If this book is resubbed to the CGC, they will not miss the trim.

Edited by James J Johnson
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blue_hero_8

blue_hero_8

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14 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Here is my first post on this subject copied and pasted from page 1:

"The PGX 8.5 has a right edge that's inconsistent with 1974/5 Marvel production. Highly suspect. No roll, lays flat, and yet, the pages extend beyond the level of the cover. Very unusual. In my opinion, trimmed, front cover only, right edge. The CGC examples are fine."

I still stand by it. If this book is resubbed to the CGC, they will not miss the trim.

Yeah you said that the pages extend beyond the cover which isn't the case. The back cover extends beyond the front cover and the pages. 

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James J Johnson

James J Johnson

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Posted
4 hours ago, blue_hero_8 said:

Yeah you said that the pages extend beyond the cover which isn't the case. The back cover extends beyond the front cover and the pages. 

Read this again:  "The PGX 8.5 has a right edge that's inconsistent with 1974/5 Marvel production. Highly suspect. No roll, lays flat, and yet, the pages extend beyond the level of the cover. Very unusual. In my opinion, trimmed, front cover only, right edge. The CGC examples are fine."

You see this part of it: the pages extend beyond the level of the cover. ?

I am referring to the level of the front cover, which is obvious. No extensive trim detection skills are needed to deduce that. The front cover stops well short of the rest of the book, and further, it's cut at an angle that isn't similar to the rest of the book, neither the pages, nor the back cover. So again, I'll reaffirm as stated (referring to the front cover):  "trimmed, front cover only, right edge"

Why are you trying to tell me that I stated otherwise when it's right there in my first post?:

The front cover falls short. Now, not all front covers that fall short are trimmed, but this right edge has a particular symmetry, front cover/pages/back cover, that is consistent with Silver age books, but not consistent with mid-Bronze age books. In my estimation, this Hulk 181 is trimmed, right edge, front cover only. Can't make it plainer than that, which I thought I did with my first post. In my opinion, PGX missed the boat on this one and the CGC would not.have

 

 

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blue_hero_8

blue_hero_8

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On 6/29/2018 at 4:00 PM, James J Johnson said:

Try finding a blue label CGC graded Hulk 181 in VF or better (no spine roll and perfectly flat) that has a "Silver age cut right edge". That is, the front cover stopping way short of the inside pages on the right edge and the pages of the right edge visible at a slight angle (a tilt to the cover edge of between 1 and 2 degrees out of parallel). Then post it here once found.

How about this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-Wolverine-1st-app-w-MVS-Unpressed-CGC-9-6-Marvel-1974/362378585351?hash=item545f726507%3Ag%3ANVYAAOSw~ztbP~Vu%3Asc%3AUSPSPriority!28677!US!-1&_sacat=63&_nkw=hulk+181+3.0&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313&LH_TitleDesc=0

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