Recent Glut of 1st Appearance Creations 0

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Fixed.

Claremont didn't like Wolvie, and wanted to get rid of him. Byrne was the one who turned that around.

On a related note, there have been some people suggesting that Wolvie was a "hit right out of the gate." It would be really nice if people didn't try to retcon actual history to fit their narratives. 

Wolverine was NOT a "hit right out of the gate." It took several years, and John Byrne, for Wolvie to become as popular as he became. 

After his first appearance in Hulk #180-182? He didn't show up again for another 6 months, and then only in the pages of GSXM #1, as part of the team.

Claremont, Byrne, whatever. The point is still the same. Someone has to do something interesting with the character for anyone to care. If GS X-Men wasn't a forced attempt to create an international team, I wonder if anything interesting would have been done with Wolverine

[RockMyAmadeus]

19 hours ago, Hey Kids, Comics! said:

20 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

The only meaningful creation to come out of those books was Hitman, 

Probably the first time those words have ever been uttered or typed...…………………….

No. The first appearance of Hitman, in Demon Annual #2, was a moderately hot book throughout the mid to late 90s. He is quite correct to say that that was the only meaningful creation of the "Bloodlines" storyline. Hitman was a moderately successful title at the time of its publication. 

Were you buying comics during this time period?

[Brock]

19 hours ago, Hey Kids, Comics! said:

Probably the first time those words have ever been uttered or typed...…………………….

I loved Hitman, and count it among my favourite series of all time. Brilliantly and subversively funny, with a genuine 60-issue story arc. Although the tone and content are very different, it ranks (in my mind) with books like Gaiman's Sandman, Robinson's Starman and Vaughn's Y: The Last Man as an outstanding example of long-form comics storytelling.

It was definitely a cult hit, but a hit nonetheless...

[kimik]

The current wave of new character concepts by the big 2 is fine with me. As Disney and WB/AT&T drive towards streaming their own content on subscription services, as well as movies and regular TV (live action and cartoon), they need to expand their offerings. Comics are a relatively cheap way to test market new ideas, build a fan following, and then capitalize on them via more profitable mediums.

I also like the aspect of offering more incentive for creators to develop characters at Marvel or DC instead of the independents. That means we will likely see good characters sticking around for the long haul rather than just in minis or delayed then discontinued irregular ongoing series.........

[divad]

On 6/30/2018 at 10:28 AM, BeholdersEye said:

Is it my imagination or does it feel that Marvel and DC are pushing out mediocre new characters, often remix/reimagined (not so creative at times) variations of existing characters, and with greater frequency now.

I envision seeing every issue with an introduction to some new character in a cameo, then as a civilian, and then the origin in costume, heroes, villains and supporting characters alike.

I think everyone is looking for "the next" fill in the blank hot character of today, or grail key of yesteryear, so this seems like what's happening in modern comics today.

This (with deleted portions) has been the formula for comic books since at least 1961 (if not earlier.)

[Hey Kids, Comics!]

7 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Wow, 5 whole years of doing cons in a ridiculously speculative market and you haven't had any requests for books featuring a character who died in 2001? How very, very strange.

I'll bet you haven't read the series. I'm guessing that you've never actually asked anybody else if they've read it.

My point was simply that I thought it was odd that they had kicked around the idea of doing a TV show based on a character who's been dead for 15+ years and isn't really on the radar of most of the average comics buying group's radar. If I've had 1000's of people at my booth and had zero requests for him (and I've had some crazy obscure asks), that's a fairly good indication of his current popularity. It's not a mainstream character or series is all I was saying after my initial post. I even backtracked on my own statement with "In hindsight I guess "meaningful" isn't a stretch for the time. Pretty sure that run won a few Eisner and CBG awards."

[Hey Kids, Comics!]

6 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

No. The first appearance of Hitman, in Demon Annual #2, was a moderately hot book throughout the mid to late 90s. He is quite correct to say that that was the only meaningful creation of the "Bloodlines" storyline. Hitman was a moderately successful title at the time of its publication. 

Were you buying comics during this time period?

I was actually working in a comic shop at the time of it's release, but had multiple kids and had to get a "real job" by the time his solo series came out. I was very much on the periphery of the hobby in the late 90's, returning in the early 2000's. My opinion was more based on now, which I realize isn't an accurate portrayal of his "meaningfulness" at the time. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 6/30/2018 at 1:28 PM, BeholdersEye said:

Is it my imagination or does it feel that Marvel and DC are pushing out mediocre new characters, often remix/reimagined (not so creative at times) variations of existing characters, and with greater frequency now…

I envision seeing every issue with an introduction to some new character in a cameo, then as a civilian, and then the origin in costume, heroes, villains and supporting characters alike.

I think everyone is looking for "the next" fill in the blank hot character of today, or grail key of yesteryear, so this seems like what's happening in modern comics today.

 

3 hours ago, divad said:

This (with deleted portions) has been the formula for comic books since at least 1961 (if not earlier.)

1956. DC's Silver Age was basically a reboot of the characters that they weren't still publishing, which is why we got "new" versions of the Flash, Green Lantern, etc.

[JTLarsen]

1 hour ago, Hey Kids, Comics! said:

My point was simply that I thought it was odd that they had kicked around the idea of doing a TV show based on a character who's been dead for 15+ years and isn't really on the radar of most of the average comics buying group's radar. If I've had 1000's of people at my booth and had zero requests for him (and I've had some crazy obscure asks), that's a fairly good indication of his current popularity. It's not a mainstream character or series is all I was saying after my initial post. I even backtracked on my own statement with "In hindsight I guess "meaningful" isn't a stretch for the time. Pretty sure that run won a few Eisner and CBG awards."

“Current popularity” has weak correlation with potential.

[RockMyAmadeus]

5 hours ago, Hey Kids, Comics! said:

11 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

No. The first appearance of Hitman, in Demon Annual #2, was a moderately hot book throughout the mid to late 90s. He is quite correct to say that that was the only meaningful creation of the "Bloodlines" storyline. Hitman was a moderately successful title at the time of its publication. 

Were you buying comics during this time period?

I was actually working in a comic shop at the time of it's release, but had multiple kids and had to get a "real job" by the time his solo series came out. I was very much on the periphery of the hobby in the late 90's, returning in the early 2000's. My opinion was more based on now, which I realize isn't an accurate portrayal of his "meaningfulness" at the time. 

Well, ok, that explains it.

+

[fastballspecial]

23 hours ago, Coolio McCool said:

It's getting close to Youngblood days, a new new character on every page. The sales are to speculators and the prices aren't sustainable, Kingpin's little sister isn't likely to have a big fan following anytime soon.

You know that pretty much sums up the problem currently. 

[Jeffro.]

19 hours ago, ygogolak said:

20 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Wow, 5 whole years of doing cons in a ridiculously speculative market and you haven't had any requests for books featuring a character who died in 2001? How very, very strange.

I'll bet you haven't read the series. I'm guessing that you've never actually asked anybody else if they've read it.

What does this add?

Nothing, but that's Lazboy's M.O. He's kinda like jaydog-lite

[Lazyboy]

14 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

On 7/1/2018 at 11:24 AM, ygogolak said:

What does this add?

Nothing, but that's Lazboy's M.O.

Yeah, because "Probably the first time those words have ever been uttered or typed...……………………." is so useful and relevant... oh, and accurate.

Maybe somebody should go through your posts and use them to paint a picture of your nice, shiny, broken glass houses. Do you need any more stones?

14 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

He's kinda like jaydog-lite

Do not compare me to Jaydogrules. You must be mentally challenged to think for even one second that that's even close to a valid comparison.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

40 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

14 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

On 7/1/2018 at 9:24 AM, ygogolak said:

What does this add?

Nothing, but that's Lazboy's M.O.

Yeah, because "Probably the first time those words have ever been uttered or typed...……………………." is so useful and relevant... oh, and accurate.

Maybe somebody should go through your posts and use them to paint a picture of your nice, shiny, broken glass houses. Do you need any more stones?

14 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

He's kinda like jaydog-lite

Do not compare me to Jaydogrules. You must be mentally challenged to think for even one second that that's even close to a valid comparison.

At the risk of losing social status...and I hope you know I luv ya, 'fro....but Lazyboy is nothing at all like jaydog. Lazyboy can be abrasive, but he's also smart, educated, and almost always correct. He knows what he's talking about, and he doesn't become abusive if someone proves him wrong. And, to the delight of most everyone, he won't drag out a discussion (like I do) in the attempt to try and reason and/or educate anyone. He says what he has to say, and that's that. 

I'll take 1,000 Lazyboys over a single jaydog who, despite multiple and serious violations going back years, never seems to be disciplined by anyone in authority. 

[Jeffro.]

8 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

22 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

On 7/1/2018 at 12:24 PM, ygogolak said:

What does this add?

Nothing, but that's Lazboy's M.O.

Yeah, because "Probably the first time those words have ever been uttered or typed...……………………." is so useful and relevant... oh, and accurate.

Maybe somebody should go through your posts and use them to paint a picture of your nice, shiny, broken glass houses. Do you need any more stones?

22 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

He's kinda like jaydog-lite

Do not compare me to Jaydogrules. You must be mentally challenged to think for even one second that that's even close to a valid comparison.

You're such a sweet talker. You just keep on being a complete person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed. You have a talent for it.

[Jeffro.]

7 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

At the risk of losing social status...and I hope you know I luv ya, 'fro....but Lazyboy is nothing at all like jaydog. Lazyboy can be abrasive, but he's also smart, educated, and almost always correct. He knows what he's talking about, and he doesn't become abusive if someone proves him wrong. And, to the delight of most everyone, he won't drag out a discussion (like I do) in the attempt to try and reason and/or educate anyone. He says what he has to say, and that's that. 

I'll take 1,000 Lazyboys over a single jaydog who, despite multiple and serious violations going back years, never seems to be disciplined by anyone in authority. 

Well, that's why I said "kinda"  
Seems like he could get his point across without the abrasiveness though. I remember his dickish attitude towards people when the new boards went live. Leopard doesn't change his spots. An intelligent d-bag is still a d-bag

Edited July 3, 2018 by Jerkfro

[MGH]

Hasn't there always be new characters, all the time... Only a few of them really stick 

Some of them are hilariously trapped in the time they were created... Not so many timeless creations out there 

Edited July 3, 2018 by MGH

[BeholdersEye]

I think the difference now seems that from the buyers side, and publishers know it, back in the days, new characters was to inspire new readers and engage existing readers, where they loved to see single issue sales continue or rise, where today, it's all about a smaller population of buyers (dare I not say "readers" because the majority of books are not even read by the purchasers of multiple copies who then entomb the books into CGC plastic never to be enjoyed for the literature and more treasured as a collectible asset).

It also feels like the imagination involved in the new creations is uninspired and biting off existing characters and there's little innovation towards really creative unique characters with substance, and substance is something like personality and charisma that needs to develop over time, much like a baby to toddler to child to teen to adult, the evolution (varied creative teams handling the character) takes time.  Look at Deadpool, as a previously cited example as well as Lobo, and other characters who had mediocre periods to pinnacle years later with the right writer (and artist).

My biggest observation is simply there's too many coming out and too many speculators hording 'em and buyers, buying into the hype causing seemingly unsustainable  stock market like surges based on assets with volatile foundations like Bitcoin Crypto Currencies, Tech stocks etc. - - making assumptions that the current prospect is the next legendary hall of famer and pricing it based on that future being realized.

[jsilverjanet]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Fixed.

Claremont didn't like Wolvie, and wanted to get rid of him. Byrne was the one who turned that around.

On a related note, there have been some people suggesting that Wolvie was a "hit right out of the gate." It would be really nice if people didn't try to retcon actual history to fit their narratives. 

Wolverine was NOT a "hit right out of the gate." It took several years, and John Byrne, for Wolvie to become as popular as he became. 

After his first appearance in Hulk #180-182? He didn't show up again for another 6 months, and then only in the pages of GSXM #1, as part of the team.

wasn't X-Men 132 (final page) and 133 that really put him on the map

[RockMyAmadeus]

9 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

wasn't X-Men 132 (final page) and 133 that really put him on the map

Not really. It was part of the process that led from "Wolverine, the X-Man that Claremont and Cockrum hated" to "The X-Men, starring Wolverine" (#160-200) to "Wolverine, guest starring the Uncanny X-Men" (#201-300.)

X-Men #109 was the first glimmer of what would come, with Wolvie's first spotlight cover (and boy, what a cover.) But then, Wolvie didn't have a spotlight cover again for several more years (#133), and then only sporadically after that (#141-142, #162, #174.)

I ran the numbers a few years ago...the star of X-Men #94-#130 is really Storm, if we go by story and cover appearances. Claremont and Cockrum really liked her (and, so did the fans.)

What's interesting about Wolvie is that for the first 7 years of his existence, after Hulk #180-182, you see no appearances from him on his own in any other Marvel comics. It's not until What If? #31 that you find him on his own, and that's basically just a re-telling of Hulk #181. Wolvie appears in a handful of X-Men appearances...a cameo in ASM #161, MTU #53, Annual #1, Iron Fist #15, PM&IF #57, Rom #17, 18...but you never see him on his own until 1982. Now, granted, it's not like the others made appearances elsewhere, either, except Nightcrawler in the aforementioned ASM #161-162, but AFTER the Wolvie mini, Wolvie starts to pop up in the Marvel U on his own more regularly: DD #196, Firestar #2, DD #248-249, Web of Spiderman #29, Spiderman & Wolverine #1, Power Pack #19 and #27, Kitty Pryde & Wolvie, and by the late 80's he's all over the place on his own. 

The X-Men, if they appeared outside of their title, appeared almost exclusively as a team. Part of that was because of Claremont, but really, for a long time, it was The X-Men that people wanted...not just Storm, or Wolvie, or Colossus...but people wanted to see the team, because it was their interaction together that made them such a hit.