Steve Ditko has passed
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I have no idea who gave AF15OA to Smithsonian (Library of Congress? National Archives? - hey did I tell ya'll about when I worked at the National Arcives in College Park one summer and got to dealwith the Zapruder film original and the 3 secret service copies and all the wack jobs coming in thinking they'd solved the magic bullet secret shooter sh*t? Antoher thread. I guess) oh, where was I: Yeah I've never heard that story you say. I always thought everybody thought Marian Severenson gave it up. 

Just a feeling I had talking to niece is all with brother getting alot of artwork and Ditko getting mad at him over something about art.

I'm often wrong. Often. 

Edited by NoMan

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2 hours ago, NoMan said:

I always thought everybody thought Marian Severenson gave it up. 

I posted a link to a Youtube video concerning the issue 28 of Amazing Spider-man cover, the poster claimed that Marie Severin  was given the original art pages to use on the Marvel tales line and ended up selling them to boost her retirement funds. I believe this version as the poster has the original page in his collection, it's possible that he could be a fellow member? Also many thanks for posting that information on Steve I will be very interested in seeing where the story goes No-man.:golfclap:

Edited by tv horror

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I bugged my wife at dinner as her first day back at work is tomorrow. She, wisely, "wants to give her (niece) a little space now." 

So when it happens, we'll ask.

 

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16 minutes ago, NoMan said:

So when it happens, we'll ask.

 

Thanks for that and I can well understand. Here is the link I mentioned the interesting bit comes at the 06:33 mark, enjoy.

 

Edited by tv horror

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10 minutes ago, tv horror said:

Thanks for that and I can well understand. Here is the link I mentioned the interesting bit comes at the 06:33 mark, enjoy.

 

I'm not sure how the clip you provided equates MS to AF15OA anonymous donation to Smithsonian. Didn't watch the whole thing. Just the Spiderman part. Someone here on the boards (if I remember correctly) went to see the AF15OA in person, asked the curator who donated it and curator says something about not being able to say because the person who donated it has more that Smithsonian is hoping to get.

Knowing this, and knowing Ditko has been shipping art to his brother it would seem to me the brother is the secret donator. 

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3 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I'm not sure how the clip you provided equates MS to AF15OA anonymous donation to Smithsonian

No, however it does prove Marie Severin had access to his original pages, plus she was also responsible with Bill Everett for some of the re-creations of the Marvel tales covers.

sev-ev-marveltales26.jpg

sev-evspidey.jpg

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I stand by my theory. 

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1 hour ago, NoMan said:

I stand by my theory. 

No one is questioning you, I'm not sure what you are thinking. If it is anything I wrote I will stand by it as I've only replied with respect to your information of what you heard personally. 

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4 hours ago, NoMan said:

I stand by my theory. 

It's a fine theory.  And a far far better theory than Marie Severin stole the art and sold it to a collector.

But, it runs counter to many years of collectors knowing that a lot of early Marvel art was stolen.  There's no reason to believe that Ditko had the original art to AF 15.  Here's why:

  • Quote

    In a lengthy 28-page essay titled "The Sore Spot Cause and Crusade," published in the January 1993 issue of Robin Snyder's History of the Comics newsletter, Ditko discussed the original art market and provided a summary of what original artwork pages he received back from Marvel in the 1980s after signing Marvel's release form. Of the Spider-Man pages that he drew, Ditko "received story/art pages from 3 Spider-Man issues: 2 complete issues (inside pages) and a 3rd which had three pages missing [probably #35, see above]. So, I was given, as a 'gift,' a portion of 3 issues of the 41 Spider-Man books I did. There is nothing from the Spider-Man annuals (one of which included Dr. Strange as a guest star). And no covers of any kind. What happened to those 38 missing Spider-Man books and all the other missing pages and covers?"  As for his other Marvel work, Ditko wrote that he received back "many" of the 5-page fantasy back-up tales he had done, though not all. Also, "I believe I received most of the Dr. Strange story/art pages. I haven't made an exact check." Of his 1960s work on the Hulk, Ditko wrote, "None of those pages were returned." 

     

And, it was reported that the anonymous donor asked Ditko's permission before donating the art.  This is an article where Ditko was quoted about the donation:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-09-02/features/0809010104_1_artwork-comic-book-steve-ditko

It states:

Quote

 

Ditko, 80, was more abrupt. When reached at his Manhattan studio, he would only say: "I couldn't care less."

His comment reflects a battle that's raged for decades.

Part of the artist's reaction, said Blake Bell, author of "Strange and Stranger: The World of Steve Ditko," could be Ditko's long-standing protest over pages he feels were stolen.

"A lot of these artists were robbed of their artwork," said Bell. "'Amazing Fantasy #15' was among the artwork that disappeared from the Marvel Comics vaults, like 'Fantastic Four #1' or 'Incredible Hulk #1,' between the late '70s and early '80s.

There's been anecdotal evidence of stuff being 'liberated' or given away even in the 1960s."

While Ditko declined to comment further, he has written passionately about artist ownership.

In 1993, he railed against Marvel for treating its creators poorly and chastised the company for not investigating the missing comic book pages.

"It rewards, gratifies and sanctions the 'original artwork' thieves and their thieves' market," Ditko wrote in a 28-page essay.

He even refused to participate in a fan-led effort to pressure Marvel to return artist Jack Kirby's pages in the 1980s, because the scope didn't extend to all artists. Kirby was another Lee collaborator who helped create the Fantastic Four, X-Men, Iron Man and the Hulk.

"If one believes that one artist has a right to his story/art pages, then every artist has that right," Ditko wrote. "It also means one must be against everyone who immorally holds any artist's property."

[Curator Sara] Duke said the donor wrote to Ditko offering to return the "Amazing Fantasy" pages or give them to the Library of Congress. Ditko declined to receive them, Duke said.

"Acquiring almost any comic book art is controversial," said Duke. "And I was told by the donor that provenance could be traced if necessary. It's not been an issue. There's a lot of artwork out there, and how it was dispersed is controversial."

But, Duke said, the donor gave the pages to the library with an eye toward preservation because "comic book museums come and go, but the Library of Congress has been around for 200 years."

 

Translation:  That sure looks like a curator for the LoC admitting the artwork was stolen and then sold into the collecting community.  

You can run the searches on this website, but there are threads here stating that a specific original art dealer has much of the early Ditko Spiderman art, and has auctioned some off on Heritage.  Perhaps he was the donor.

 

Edited by sfcityduck

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5 hours ago, tv horror said:

No one is questioning you, I'm not sure what you are thinking. If it is anything I wrote I will stand by it as I've only replied with respect to your information of what you heard personally. 

No harm no foul. I apologize if my response seemed inappropriate. I certainly didn’t intend it. I was just saying that putting all the info together I just think what I think. 

But as I’ve said also, I’m often wrong. 

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2 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

It's a fine theory.  And a far far better theory than Marie Severin stole the art and sold it to a collector.

But, it runs counter to many years of collectors knowing that a lot of early Marvel art was stolen.  There's no reason to believe that Ditko had the original art to AF 15.  Here's why:

  •  

And, it was reported that the anonymous donor asked Ditko's permission before donating the art.  This is an article where Ditko was quoted about the donation:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-09-02/features/0809010104_1_artwork-comic-book-steve-ditko

It states:

Translation:  That sure looks like a curator for the LoC admitting the artwork was stolen and then sold into the collecting community.  

You can run the searches on this website, but there are threads here stating that a specific original art dealer has much of the early Ditko Spiderman art, and has auctioned some off on Heritage.  Perhaps he was the donor.

 

Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post that. It certainly puts lots of holes in my theory. 

Edited by NoMan

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As requested No-man.:) 

Edited by tv horror

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1 hour ago, tv horror said:

I would be very careful using words like that, Ms Severin is a highly respected artist and person and no one here has even hinted at an accusation. 

.

Edited by NoMan

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10 minutes ago, tv horror said:

Ms Severin is a highly respected artist

Her watercolor for Cochran’s hardcover EC books proves that. 

 

6DE4EAA4-AB39-43D8-97DE-7166274270C4.jpeg

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I apologize No-man it was in fact a quote of a quote by sfcityduck and he should be more careful. As for yourself I've not found anything wrong of anything you've said. 

Edited by tv horror

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31 minutes ago, tv horror said:

I apologize No-man it was in fact a quote of a quote by sfcityduck and he should be more careful. As for yourself I've not found anything wrong of anything you've said. 

.

Edited by NoMan

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19 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

Her watercolor for Cochran’s hardcover EC books proves that. 

 

6DE4EAA4-AB39-43D8-97DE-7166274270C4.jpeg

I'm tempted to say that's beautiful however it is a hanging.  Aw what the heck! It IS beautiful.

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7 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

than Marie Severin stole the art and sold it to a collector.

I would be very careful using words like that, Ms Severin is a highly respected artist and person and no one here has even hinted at an accusation. 

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5 minutes ago, tv horror said:

I apologize No-man it was in fact a quote of a quote by sfcityduck and he should be more careful. As for yourself I've not found anything wrong of anything you've said. 

Nah.  You should be more careful.  I was posting against the notion that Marie Severin stole the art, which is the theory that some here have pushed.  

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