Trade Bait 0

[drdroom]

Question for collectors more than dealers: When you go to a con to possibly wheel and deal, what's in your portfolio? Is it all stuff you're willing to part with, or do you include stuff you love, just in case you run into something you love more? Do you sometimes buy stuff you don't actually love on spec, because you are gambling you can trade it for something you do? If so, what percentage of your collecting budget goes to those kind of purchases? Is your strategy working?

Edited July 14, 2018 by drdroom

[alxjhnsn]

I’ve never done a trade. All cash all the time. 

To be honest, I have very few pieces that I’d be willing to move. 

[comix4fun]

54 minutes ago, alxjhnsn said:

I’ve never done a trade. All cash all the time. 

 

[Rick2you2]

I agree with Alex. The only trade I did was not really a trade at all. Someone insisted on a trade, so I offered to buy something he wanted which was up for auction. It worked out nicely, as I ended up paying less than I otherwise expected, and he got something he wanted.

My collection is a dip into my personal nostalgia. Fond memories can't be sold (only shared).

[The Voord]

I have acquired artwork in the past specifically to be used as trade bait (it's a means to an end).  Years ago I got in several Romita Snr ASM pages from a German collector friend which I then used in trade with Mike Burkey against a few high-end pieces he had available on his web-site.  Worked very well to our mutual satisfaction.  Not something I've made a habit of doing, but sometimes you've got to be imaginative in ways to acquire art..

Edited July 14, 2018 by The Voord

[drdroom]

14 hours ago, alxjhnsn said:

I’ve never done a trade. All cash all the time. 

To be honest, I have very few pieces that I’d be willing to move. 

I envy you! My problem is my desire for a terrific piece which has appeared may happen to exceed my cash flow at a given moment Mostly I only buy what I love, and it's a painful calculus, but I've been able to trade up on several occasions, either several smaller pieces for one more important piece, or just pieces I wanted for pieces I wanted more. Lately, though, I have been picking up some lower priced modern pages, more on spec than out of real passion, in hopes of future leverage. 

[malvin]

My short answer is, where do you think my "ebay 1c No Reserve" auctions come from   It's stuff that I buy that I think has upside either at cons, online or wherever.

The longer answer is, I have done a few trades and they are tougher.  As you can imagine, both sides have to value the trade material offered.    I use to bring stuff to cons to sell/trade, but I don't think I have had much success (Im excluding stuff that was already bought and I was meeting someone at a con)

I don't have a specific percentage allocated to buying stuff for resale vs. the collection. In general, if I think there is enough upside I would buy it regardless of my budget.  As for whether or not its working.. hard to say, I tell my wife that the stuff I buy for my collection are funded from my 1 cent no reserve sales so there is no "real money" going into my hobby, but I think she knows that the math doesn't work but turns a blind eye

Malvin

[John E.]

Trades are tough. If you happen to have a good rapport with a collector who, let's say, collects Savage Dragon art and you happen to find SD art at a con, then great. In addition to that, that collector must also have something you want that he is willing to let go. The Voord's anecdote is a perfect example of that. Otherwise, speculating on modern pieces with a faceless collector in mind can be risky. Less risky if you're talking Spider-Man; more so if you're talking the current hot title from Image. Buying a nice looking Savage Dragon page for full or close to full price thinking it's trade bait without a recipient in mind may have you stuck with something expensive that you don't want, and will later lose money on in real cash or trade. 

I think I'm kinda sorta in your position when it comes to wanting art that is out of my budget or comfort area. For the first four years of collecting, I sort of bought on spec, but now I've decided to just save that money and let my war chest grow. When there's something that I have to have and I'm short, I'll just go ahead and sell a piece or two to make up the difference and call it "trading up." Finding myself with $0 in the war chest and having to fund that grail by selling 5-6 pieces often costs me more after paying 10%-13% in fees, if you know what I mean. 

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Jay Olie Espy

[alxjhnsn]

Re: a terrific piece which has appeared may happen to exceed my cash flow at a given moment

I know the feeling, but I decided long ago on my budget and I stick to it. There will be another or I can prepare by building my stas.

 

[Mr. Machismo]

I don’t buy on spec to trade. I tried that when I first started and it was a mistake and did not work. 

I only buy what I love and would like to hold on to, but am okay moving for a piece I love more, which happens. Either way I’m left with a piece I appreciate and enjoy having in my collection, rather than one I’m constantly desiring to move because it has no place there to begin with. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Mr. Machismo

[The Voord]

I certainly wouldn't advocate buying garden variety art as trade bait in the hope that somewhere down the line someone will jump at the pieces you buy.  With me, on those handful of times I've bought-in trade bait material, I knew exactly who would eagerly be interested in such pieces (which were carefully selected).

Okay, put it another way . . . if someone has art you covet that won't be swayed by cash offers . . .  If you know what pushes their buttons and can come up with art they'd jump at, then you have leverage for getting the other guy to relinquish the stuff you want (that otherwise wouldn't be made available to you).  As I suggest, a bit of inventiveness in how you go about acquiring the art you want, by way of tempting material (there is a distinction), goes a long way . . .

Edited July 14, 2018 by The Voord

[Stefanomjr]

Zero percent of my budget is allocated to trade bait.  There's an opportunity cost there that I think isn't worth the risk. 

Also,  my (small) collection is comprised entirely of art I would never trade or sell. 

[The Voord]

14 minutes ago, Stefanomjr said:

Zero percent of my budget is allocated to trade bait.  There's an opportunity cost there that I think isn't worth the risk. 

Also,  my (small) collection is comprised entirely of art I would never trade or sell. 

Whatever works for you.  

Okay, put another way . . . some dealers welcome trade material against the art they have for sale.  If you can't pony-up the required cash amount (which can often be excessive . . . SD take a bow), then trade material can be another option to fall back onto as a bargaining chip (and if you possess the 'right' material can work in your favour).  

Keep all options open, I would respectfully suggest . . . 'Who Dares Wins'.

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by The Voord

[Mr. Machismo]

1 hour ago, Stefanomjr said:

Zero percent of my budget is allocated to trade bait.  There's an opportunity cost there that I think isn't worth the risk. 

Also,  my (small) collection is comprised entirely of art I would never trade or sell. 

What if I traded you my entire collection for that one piece?

[Twanj]

14 minutes ago, Bill C said:

What movie/TV show is this clip from? I've seen another hilarious clip with this guy prior, and am curious what it was from.

Eastbound and Down. Pretty funny!

[Stefanomjr]

45 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

What if I traded you my entire collection for that one piece?

Inconceivable 

[MyNameIsLegion]

I've traded with Moy, Burkey, Anthony, Fanfare, and Morger on multiple occasions over the last 20 years. I've traded with many of you as individuals here and there. I've done some very convoluted 3 and 4-way cash and trade deals that would make the NBA or NFL player trades look simple. I've traded comics for art.  I've certainly bought art that wasn't my specific thing but knew it had enough upside to be leveraged for things I like better. Sometimes you have to buy the art that's available to you and accessible, not the art you really want but can't afford, or don't want to lay out the cash and get caught up in some bidding war. I used to sell art too, but haven't so much in recent years, and you know why? I hate having to package it up, and half the art I've ever sold, I wish I still had.  I've even gotten art back in trade I used to own.

[drdroom]

8 hours ago, The Voord said:

I certainly wouldn't advocate buying garden variety art as trade bait in the hope that somewhere down the line someone will jump at the pieces you buy.  With me, on those handful of times I've bought-in trade bait material, I knew exactly who would eagerly be interested in such pieces (which were carefully selected).

Garden variety, no. It would bug me having it in the house. The modern stuff I'm buying is quality pages from notable titles that I believe are undervalued. I like them, which is why I think someone else will too (sometimes true!). They just aren't in my true love zone. It's true I don't know who my client will be, but for the low buy-in I'm willing to hold for quite a while.

[Michael Browning]

I've traded a lot since really getting involved in the hobby in 1999. My first trades were with George Pantella, Ken Danker, Tom Fleming and Mike Burkey. I have continued over the years to trade with dealers including Burkey, Anthony Snyder, Will Gabri-El, Rob Hughes, Saul Zimmerman, Steve Donnelly (I know people say bad things about the Donnellys, but I had a good experience trading with them), Hans Kosenkranius and Albert Moy. I enjoy a good trade and it can be fun. I've had a few bad ones that soured me on a few dealers and collectors, but, for the most part, I love the art of an art trade.

Most recently, a guy had a page I really wanted and I asked him what it would take to get it from him. He told me that he didn't want cash, but, instead, wanted a page of Savage Sword of Conan artwork penciled by Buscema and inked by Alcala, so I reached out to the dealer who had the page he liked, paid cash for a piece I didn't want, only to have the collector to tell me that although I was getting that page specifically for him to make the trade and he knew that, that he had gone ahead and traded away the page to another collector and that I should ask for my money back on the Conan page. What a jerk. I saw the page I was trying to get pop up on CAF this morning and it made me sick to my stomach.

I was so naive when I started trading all those years ago and so many people could have taken advantage of me, but, thank God, they didn't.

The second dealer I ever dealt with DID take advantage of me being a new collector. After I did the lopsided trade with him and found out he had really burned me, I refused to buy a cover I had agreed to buy, so the dealer threatened to sue me. It almost caused me to leave the hobby.

A dealer/"friend" nearly caused me to stop collecting back at the end of 2016 and the beginning of 2017 when he conned me into giving him a good deal because we had been such great friends for so long. I also found out he had been trashing me to other dealers at shows for a long time, while we were still friends.

Tom Fleming was great to trade with. I made him a huge offer on my Doom Patrol 1 cover and he said that he liked the art I was offering him and to pick out the art I was trading him that equaled what he was asking in cash, which was extremely nice of him. Tom is one of the good guys in the hobby.

On my very first visit to CAF, I found my grail: the Carmine Infantino Flash 323 cover. I made a trade with a collector to get that cover and I offered him WAY more than it was worth then, but he didn't take advantage of me and made me a very fair trade. I will always be grateful to him for that.

More recently, I made good trades with Mike Burkey to get my Carl Barks unpublished cover and Will Gabri-El on a couple of pieces and they were great to deal with, as always.

So, trading can be a lot of fun, but, beware, there are a few unscrupulous dealers/collectors out there who will do whatever it takes to take advantage of you, if they can.

[All-Star Squadman]

Been making trades for nearly 20 years now and some of my favorite art was obtained that way. As for buying for "trade bait" after many times of it simply not working out anywhere near as planned I went back to my original motto of NEVER buy something unless I like and intend to keep it.

The attitudes of many dealers, especially the big names, who it used to be "fun" trading with, now skew towards difficult to downright nasty. Dealing with other collectors however still can be mutually beneficial, just be careful you know whom you are dealing with as there are many sharks swimming in the hobby as well as a plethora of flippers who in effect are "con men".  I've found if a person has a gallery loaded with a certain title, character or artist that is likely they do not fall into the conman flipper category especially if their gallery has a long multiyear history. In addition making good contacts can be key.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by 35CentEra