Will Batman 251 become the new Incredible Hulk 181? 1 1

[Randall Ries]

Edited July 21, 2018 by Randall Ries

[Randall Ries]

I bought a 9.0 copy of this in 2013 for $115. I see prices nudging up to $1,000 for books in this grade. Remarkable jump in prices in a relatively short span of time. Had I known, I would have bought a bunch of them.

 

[Broke as a Joke]

No

[ADAMANTIUM]

It was priced pretty high a couple of years ago. Classic Adams, but I feel all this books fluctuate. Bats 232, 251, 222 & now TEC 411, 395

Edited July 21, 2018 by ADAMANTIUM
Couple

[Randall Ries]

7 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

It was priced pretty high a come of years ago. Classic Adams, but I feel all this books fluctuate. Bats 232, 251, 222 & now TEC 411, 395

That was kinda my point. It was priced really low when I bought it. Five years ago.

[ADAMANTIUM]

10 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

18 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

It was priced pretty high a come of years ago. Classic Adams, but I feel all this books fluctuate. Bats 232, 251, 222 & now TEC 411, 395

That was kinda my point. It was priced really low when I bought it. Five years ago.

And your right it has legs, but my point is that they all kind of "do"  

251 definitely in 9.0 has not been at the price that you bought it for

I'm just, imo, saying if 251 = 181 then all the bat books above kind of do...they've all seen the same price rise and around the same time. 

I was lucky enough to snag a Batman 232, 251 in 7.5 both for under $300 about 3-4 months ago. I picked up also a TEC 411 in 8.5 for slightly more. 

These books seem to settle around those prices in those grades, but with these recent sales I see why its being brought up

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

I wonder if any of the ones with first appearances will outshine 251?

In the long run, I do believe there is still a following for those without 1st appearances. 

It'll be a tight finish...

[scooter99]

1 hour ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I wonder if any of the ones with first appearances will outshine 251?

In the long run, I do believe there is still a following for those without 1st appearances. 

It'll be a tight finish...

Tec 411 already fetches more in grade.  Bats 232 is even/slightly above 251 in higher grades (at least 9.2).  All are pretty difficult with white pages and perfect wraps.  I still curse the seller of a 251 9.4 CGCS with white pages that poo poo'd a deal I agreed to a year and a half ago.  I was asking for mailing address when they said they required a deposit.  WTF?  They wait 2 days and they get the cash.  Last time I ever tried to buy a book on ebay.

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by scooter99

[ADAMANTIUM]

10 minutes ago, scooter99 said:

Tec 411 already fetches more in grade.  Bats 232 is even/slightly above 251 in higher grades (at least 9.2).  All are pretty difficult with white pages and perfect wraps.  I still curse the seller of a 251 9.4 CGCS with white pages that poo poo'd a deal I agreed to a year and a half ago.  I was asking for mailing address when they said they required a deposit.  WTF?  They wait 2 days and they get the cash.  Last time I ever tried to buy a book on ebay.

 

I agree in 9.0 or higher it's out of my wheelhouse, because they have all exploded as op has said that 251 is spiking. I settled for VF to just own presentable copies. I can see the demographic for these books are some what choosy, is that because there are so many to chose from? Too many that are miswrapped or other manufactural defects?

I imagine at this point just spending that kind of money means being picky...

As far as the op I agree these are popular and perhaps in dc for the era comparable to IH 181, I just think all of the above have the same opportunity

 

[Howling Mad]

Frankly I've always thought that Batman 251 is overpriced. There's a lot of them, and I'm not sure what it really signifies. Why is this such a coveted issue besides the art?

[Chillax23]

Agreed I don’t understand the pricing on Bats 227 and 251 - both awesome covers,  but overpriced IMO. I think Batman 232 should be worth a lot more than those two books - first appearance of a top 5 Batman villain (and a true first appearance not a first Silver age). 

[chrisco37]

31 minutes ago, Chillax23 said:

Agreed I don’t understand the pricing on Bats 227 and 251 - both awesome covers,  but overpriced IMO. I think Batman 232 should be worth a lot more than those two books - first appearance of a top 5 Batman villain (and a true first appearance not a first Silver age). 

Beat me to it.  232 is the most important, but 251 is important as well as the Joker returns to a more psychotic version, closer to the original version.

227 is a cool cover, but that’s all it’s got. Interiors aren’t even Adams.

The ranking, IMO, should be:

232

251

227

[paul747]

Should not even be in the same conversation. 1st appearances and classic covers are apples and oranges.

[namisgr]

Of course it's not the new Hulk 181, since it doesn't introduce a hugely popular new character.  The Adams cover and interior art are really sweet, though.

This is the copy I bought off the rack back in the day.  It's got a bit of spine wear, but a great cover wrap and deep blue color strike:

Edited July 21, 2018 by namisgr

[kimik]

3 hours ago, chrisco37 said:

Beat me to it.  232 is the most important, but 251 is important as well as the Joker returns to a more psychotic version, closer to the original version.

227 is a cool cover, but that’s all it’s got. Interiors aren’t even Adams.

The ranking, IMO, should be:

232

251

227

And if you include Tecs:

Batman 232

Tec 411

Tec 400

Tec 405

Batman 251

Batman 227

Batman 234

 

That being said, as a collector chasing GA Batman and Tec Joker covers personally as well, the spike in most Joker cover books happened 2-3 years ago. I can remember passing on a friend's copies of Tec #71 in VG and GD/VG for just a few hundred apiece not that long ago......... 

[bronze johnny]

3 hours ago, paul747 said:

Should not even be in the same conversation. 1st appearances and classic covers are apples and oranges.

Agreed. You can't compare a classic cover to the Amazing Fantasy 15 of the Bronze Age. Wolverine is an iconic comic book character. One of the top 5 comic book superhero creations of the 20th Century. Bats 251 is one of the classic BA covers. I don't mind comparing Adams' Bats covers to the best of the SA and GA Bats covers (Neal holds his own with any of the GA greats). 

The better comparison is whether Bats 251 is the better cover than Bats 227. 

[Randall Ries]

9 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

Agreed. You can't compare a classic cover to the Amazing Fantasy 15 of the Bronze Age. Wolverine is an iconic comic book character. One of the top 5 comic book superhero creations of the 20th Century. Bats 251 is one of the classic BA covers. I don't mind comparing Adams' Bats covers to the best of the SA and GA Bats covers (Neal holds his own with any of the GA greats). 

The better comparison is whether Bats 251 is the better cover than Bats 227. 

251 is not the better cover I don't believe.

I have been following the price hike on 251 for over a year. It is steadily climbing. There are plenty of copies just like 181 as well. The selling point for 251 aside from the classic cover (Which 181 is NOT) is it is the first time the Joker murdered since 1942. Batman #9 I believe or Detective #45. It's entirely possible Wolverine will fade from popularity or settle into a lesser character when the next best thing eventually comes around. The Joker has been around since 1940 and thanks to Neal Adams was pulled out of the bumbling fool thing back to the whack job he was conceived as.

 

A Bat 232 in 9.0 goes for around $800-900 bucks right now. About the same as a 251 although I am seeing some people asking $1,000 for a 9.0 251. Bat 232 has held steady at that price for awhile now. The rate the 251 has climbed far outstrips the increments 227 and 232 have seen in the same amount of time. IMO, the cover to 244 is the best Bat cover Adams ever did.

Sounds weird, but to me, 251 is the first appearance of the homicidal Joker since the Golden age. EARLY golden age. I guess I'm wondering if this is a bubble or will it continue to climb?

[Ken Aldred]

As much as Batman 251 is my favourite Adams-drawn DC comic, I’d still consider the first appearance of Ra’s Al Ghul, my favourite Batman villain, to be far more significant.  The trajectory of 251 relative to 232 has surprised me.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Ken Aldred

[bronze johnny]

13 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

251 is not the better cover I don't believe.

I have been following the price hike on 251 for over a year. It is steadily climbing. There are plenty of copies just like 181 as well. The selling point for 251 aside from the classic cover (Which 181 is NOT) is it is the first time the Joker murdered since 1942. Batman #9 I believe or Detective #45. It's entirely possible Wolverine will fade from popularity or settle into a lesser character when the next best thing eventually comes around. The Joker has been around since 1940 and thanks to Neal Adams was pulled out of the bumbling fool thing back to the whack job he was conceived as.

 

A Bat 232 in 9.0 goes for around $800-900 bucks right now. About the same as a 251 although I am seeing some people asking $1,000 for a 9.0 251. Bat 232 has held steady at that price for awhile now. The rate the 251 has climbed far outstrips the increments 227 and 232 have seen in the same amount of time. IMO, the cover to 244 is the best Bat cover Adams ever did.

Sounds weird, but to me, 251 is the first appearance of the homicidal Joker since the Golden age. EARLY golden age. I guess I'm wondering if this is a bubble or will it continue to climb?

The same can be said about Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man fading in popularity. Again, you're comparing a book, Batman 251 to the first appearance of Marvel's greatest BA creation. A homicidal joker will remain popular with Batman fans and perhaps, a larger contingent of DC fans, but it's not on the same plane with a character that was a key component of the most popular team during the Bronze, Copper, and Modern Ages of comics. In this era of speculation, there's plenty of lesser and/or misinformed buyers overpaying ridiculous prices for books. That said, Batman 232 is the quintessential Bronze Age Batman key. The first appearance of Ra's al ghul, is an even greater creative achievement than a storyline involving a murderous Joker. Where do you think the Bronze Age of Batman would be without Ra's Al Ghul? Imagine what the Bronze Age of Superman would have been like if a villain as significant as Ra's was created for the Man of Steel?

[Brian48]

Bats 251 will *never* become a IH 181.  That said, this book has really jumped in popularity the last few years.  I'm not a fan of pressing, but I'd be a liar if I didn't say I wasn't tempted to send my 9.0 old label in for a press and regrade.  I'm pretty convinced it'll get a 9.4 at the very least.  Should have gotten more copies of this book when I had the chance.  

Edited July 22, 2018 by Brian48