Are Newton Rings 'normal and acceptable'? 6 6

[nepatkm]

4 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Ah I see, I edited a post where I addresses it though, but there tends to be the scuffs in the same spot and not enough across the board to prevent the rings...

I think they found the spots to scuff. No rings on the Punisher #1’s. ( graded 9/4) They look fantastic, until you see the scuff marks. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by nepatkm
Grade date

[ADAMANTIUM]

I get it now, but I was wondering, if they do prevent rings, which would you prefer?

You said the scuffs were minimal, but they show up in scans? Maybe not in person? Just curious if it would affect the selling of books like Newton rings do?

Like I said, I'd rather have no scuffs, but I wonder their origin

I can't imagine they're done on purpose... @nepatkm but it makes sense and is an interesting theory...

[nepatkm]

Depends on how bad the rings were @ADAMANTIUM  , both are a distraction on a 9.8 comic. 

[DR.X]

48 minutes ago, nepatkm said:

And then there’s this one. 

and they ship books out looking like that. where's the quality control?

[s-dali]

Just FYI - in the grading and restoration Issues section, there is a thread about people finding scratches.

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/439180-alot-of-scratches-on-inner-holders-newly-graded/

[Get Marwood & I]

5 hours ago, nepatkm said:

Yeah the books with the biggest problems were graded on 7/30. There have been improvements. 

The main question I had posed, which may have been lost in our discussions is -

Do you think that scuffing the inside of the outer well stops the inner book casing from bonding with it, thus stopping the Newton rings?  

I believe that is what is going on   @Get Marwood & I what do you think?

 

I don't know is the honest answer. I think it's more likely that the scratches are a production flaw. Theorising, they would have to be all over the sleeve if they were designed to keep the surface from touching the outer well. Also, would CGC really engineer a new 'crystal clear' case, and then scratch the inner well to stop a problem with rings? Seems unlikely. 

More likely they are the result of an issue with the plastic producer. Maybe the scratches are made when they store / ship the product post production. Who knows. 

What's more interesting to me, as ever, is CGC's response to those who have complained about it:

On 9/5/2018 at 12:04 AM, androolx said:

Here is the answer, "Any damage or issue like this would need to be reported to us within 14 days of receipt.  It appears that it has been more than 14 days since these were received.  You can send the books back for a reholder after that time but there would be a $15 per book charge."  I have looked at other CGC graded books I own and have seen this interior scratched holder phenomenon as far back as 04/2018.

This is why I started this thread.  I don't like how CGC deal with these issues. Newton rings, and now scratches, seem to be our fault. What has 14 days got to do with whether a book has scratches inside it? What if your books are delivered and you're away on business or holiday? It's not right and we should continue to say that wherevever and whenever we can. We should not accept an inferior product, and then inferior service when we try to address it with the company we've given our money to.

If you return to the original three questions I posed in this poll, the majority agree that Newton rings are not normal and certainly not acceptable.  There has been much speculation as to the cause. Maybe QC aren't spotting the problem because it manifests post shipping. Maybe it's the plastic. Maybe it's because the outer well is sealed. Maybe it's contamination during production. All very interesting,  but who cares really why it's happening?  I only care that it's fixed. 

Which brings me to the second question in the poll. Should they drop the new case if the new case is the problem? I'm still waiting for someone to post scans of a first or second generation book with rings. I've owned 200 of them with no rings. I can't make rings appear on the slabs I have remaining. The inner and outer wells clearly touch. No rings. Is the suggestion that Newton rings have always existed a red herring? Where are they all? So if it's the new case,  or materials, stop using them. Over 85% of 195 voters agree with that. Correct me if I've got this wrong, but one suggestion was the old plastic (Barex?) is no longer used as it was withdrawn. Why was it withdrawn? If it works, someone will surely produce it for CGC? More likely is that,  in the pursuit of 'crystal clear', we have a new plastic but, alas, one which creates the Newton Ring affect. So an obvious solution. Stop using it.

The third poll question - are we satisfied with CGC's response to date? No, is the majority response. Those that are satisfied haven't explained why and I'm frankly at a loss to understand how they could be happy. We still have a scenario where we are being invited to 'put up with it' while they tinker and try to reduce a problem they should be eliminating. CGC determine severity. CGC determine the return window. CGC determine what eye wateringly awful visual obstructions are 'normal' and 'accepatble' on the 'crystal clear' slabs that you paid for and in some cases (heh heh) waited ages for.

Can someone put me straight if I'm wrong please? Tell me why CGC shouldn't be held to the standards that you would expect from any other company offering a service? And where are all these first and second generation slabs with rings?

 

[Get Marwood & I]

8 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I'm still waiting for someone to post scans of a first or second generation book with rings. 

[namisgr]

3 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

They're very minor but clearly present and especially visible in hand with the slab at an angle.  Just below Spidey's head in the yellow section.  A slight tug to ever so slightly pull apart the front and back of the outer well eliminates it:

Edited September 20, 2018 by namisgr

[Get Marwood & I]

45 minutes ago, namisgr said:

They're very minor but clearly present and especially visible in hand with the slab at an angle.  Just below Spidey's head in the yellow section.  A slight tug to ever so slightly pull apart the front and back of the outer well eliminates it:

Thanks namisgr. I have a few of that style slab and the inner and outer wells seem snugly in contact all over. If your book here is the same, then the fact that the rings are in one small spot suggests contamination in that spot,  wouldn't you say? Maybe some grease, something like that. If so,  that would indicate sound materials, with the rings the result of handling issues. 

Where is the first or second gen book example that is covered in them, as so many of the 3rd gens are? It doesn't exist, does it.

Does it?

[namisgr]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Thanks namisgr. I have a few of that style slab and the inner and outer wells seem snugly in contact all over. If your book here is the same, then the fact that the rings are in one small spot suggests contamination in that spot,  wouldn't you say? Maybe some grease, something like that. If so,  that would indicate sound materials, with the rings the result of handling issues. 

Where is the first or second gen book example that is covered in them, as so many of the 3rd gens are? It doesn't exist, does it.

Does it?

In my personal experience, no.

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, namisgr said:

In my personal experience, no.

Mine neither. But CGC say it's always been there since day one. And that gets my goat. Trying to pass a new problem off as something that's always been there.

"Waiter, there's a fly in my soup."

"There's always been flies in our soup Sir. Eat up, it's completely normal."

"Waiter, there's four flies in my wifes soup."

"We only refund on five flies. And besides, we placed it on your table 45 seconds ago. The window for returns is 30 seconds. You're a bit awkward aren't you Sir."

"That's outrageous! We'll take our business next door!" 

"There isn't a next door Sir. We're the only restaurant for ten thousand miles. Eat up."

[meshuggah]

@Get Marwood & I Heres a 2nd gen case i saw at my LCS today. Pics aren't the best. It's a bit worse in person. I have a few 2nd gen cases with rings but its minimal and most are on the back cover.

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, meshuggah said:

@Get Marwood & I Heres a 2nd gen case i saw at my LCS today. Pics aren't the best. It's a bit worse in person. I have a few 2nd gen cases with rings but its minimal and most are on the back cover.

That's more like it. Definitely a fly or two in that soup. Keeps the poll alive while we await divine intervention.... 

[meshuggah]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

That's more like it. Definitely a fly or two in that soup. Keeps the poll alive while we await divine intervention.... 

I've been following this thread since the beginning and my LCS owner just happened to show me this as I was dropping off some books to be sent in for grading. I saw the rings immediately and had to snap a photo. 

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, meshuggah said:

I've been following this thread since the beginning and my LCS owner just happened to show me this as I was dropping off some books to be sent in for grading. I saw the rings immediately and had to snap a photo. 

What's your take on it all? Valid complaint or mountain out of a molehill?

[meshuggah]

I voted back when you posted. I think its a valid complaint. One of the major things with encapsulating a book is presentation. I collect custom sketches on blanks and my newest one has lots of rings. Luckily you can't really see them unless you angle the book right. I display my sketches on my desk at work and my mantle at home. If I saw rings all over it, I'd probably not display it and would feel like I wasted money paying an artist to make something that I just keep in a box.

I'm all for cgc communicating something to us. Whether it's we're looking into it, we don't know what causes it or we don't care deal with it.

I'd prefer that they figure out a solution and keep us informed somehow of what we can anticipate the correction will be. The silence right now is a disappointment. 

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, meshuggah said:

I'm all for cgc communicating something to us. Whether it's we're looking into it, we don't know what causes it or we don't care deal with it.

The message some pages back didn't go anywhere near far enough for me. It took a lot of pushing to get it, but it ultimately left me even less impressed. If only there was a decent competitor out there. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

27 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

The message some pages back didn't go anywhere near far enough for me. It took a lot of pushing to get it, but it ultimately left me even less impressed. If only there was a decent competitor out there. 

I agree it was mild

But to me it was "something"

Since I only had one book at the time, it was good enough..... at the time ha. When I get my 15 books back next week.... well we'll see how it goes!

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I agree it was mild

But to me it was "something"

Since I only had one book at the time, it was good enough..... at the time ha. When I get my 15 books back next week.... well we'll see how it goes!

If less than half have rings,  I expect you to be thoroughly delighted and post only happy thoughts here Mark 

[ADAMANTIUM]

5 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

If less than half have rings,  I expect you to be thoroughly delighted and post only happy thoughts here Mark 

I'll definitely post them up!!! And probably greggy style! 

Edited September 20, 2018 by ADAMANTIUM