Are Newton Rings 'normal and acceptable'? 6 6

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Ride the Tiger said:

Arrived today. No newton rings. Zero. Zip. Nada. Beautiful in every way. Cept the grade coulda been higher.

 

Any scratches? 

[Get Marwood & I]

10 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I Live! said:

12 minutes ago, Ride the Tiger said:

Any scratches? 

Traces of plutonium?

[Ride the Tiger]

No scratches. To the best of my knowledge no plutonium. Have a batch still in snail service so i'll report back probably in a month. Really happy right now.

[Get Marwood & I]

8 minutes ago, Ride the Tiger said:

No scratches. To the best of my knowledge no plutonium. Have a batch still in snail service so i'll report back probably in a month. Really happy right now.

[The Green Ghost]

13 hours ago, Jerkfro said:

And it's because of attitudes like this that help CGC justify not completely eliminating the rings. I'm not trying to single you out solely or be an a s s to you but we should all be demanding a higher standard from them and not just accepting the status quo. If we don't demand improvements, we will never get them. Perhaps CGC should start following the Lean tenet of Continuous Improvement. 

I really just don't know... before I decide if I want them or not, could anyone please tell me if they damage the book? It's impossible to tell from the comments so far, it seems like a yes.

[ADAMANTIUM]

10 minutes ago, brentdevil said:

I really just don't know... before I decide if I want them or not, could anyone please tell me if they damage the book? It's impossible to tell from the comments so far, it seems like a yes.

No they don't, they've made improvements to the case that eliminate rings anyway, offered to reholder for free, but now they come back with scratches a bit in the Mylar not the book. 

For some this is not enough of an improvement. 

Newton rings do not damage books. 

At one time the new slabs caused a creep engine so called on the books, where the book seemed to crinkle inside the case. This usually pressed out and was fine, but who knows long term effects etc. 

But as far as your question Newton rings are unsightly but does not damage books. There were other factors that did.

Edited October 6, 2018 by ADAMANTIUM

[bmalone]

On 10/5/2018 at 9:12 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

No they don't, they've made improvements to the case that eliminate rings anyway

I just got a few books back that i purchased on Ebay, both graded after the supposed "fix," and both have rings.  This was even after I scanned every square inch of the listing pictures to look for them, grrrr.  There are also a few ASM 300's that sold in the past week that have them if you check the sold listings.

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, bmalone said:

I just got a few books back that i purchased on Ebay, both graded after the supposed "fix," and both have rings.  This was even after I scanned every square inch of the listing pictures to look for them, grrrr.  There are also a few ASM 300's that sold in the past week that have them if you check the sold listings.

what was their grade date  

[bmalone]

8-31, and the other one, which looks a bit worse, was graded on 9-18

[DR.X]

On 10/5/2018 at 6:21 AM, Jerkfro said:

And it's because of attitudes like this that help CGC justify not completely eliminating the rings. I'm not trying to single you out solely or be an a s s to you but we should all be demanding a higher standard from them and not just accepting the status quo. If we don't demand improvements, we will never get them. Perhaps CGC should start following the Lean tenet of Continuous Improvement. 

I still would like to know what the " fix is ". Why would anyone send books in taking a krap shoot on having to send them back. I won't send them anything till this is resolved 100%. And where are these scratches coming from? I'd like some answers but its just a matter of time before this thread gets yanked and put on the shelf next to Ditch's.

[Get Marwood & I]

11 minutes ago, DR.X said:

I still would like to know what the " fix is ". Why would anyone send books in taking a krap shoot on having to send them back. I won't send them anything till this is resolved 100%. And where are these scratches coming from? I'd like some answers but its just a matter of time before this thread gets yanked and put on the shelf next to Ditch's.

Yank my thread?  If you think I'm annoying now....

On 10/5/2018 at 10:36 PM, Get Marwood & I Live! said:

Yes, they should.  But they won't.  Not in any significant numbers anyway. People seem content to live with faults for some reason. They let CGC off the hook like they are a group of children who are 'doing their best'.  Ahh.  Look at the nasty people criticising our CGC. 

I agree, the fix is likely to be difficult, time consuming and costly. The predisposition to rings was either not picked up in development, which is at best clumsy, or it was and a conscious decision was taken to 'justify' them to avoid a financial hit. It's that part that I dislike. The clear attempt to persuade people it was ok to have Rings - normal. And the reluctance to accept returns. The self imposed severity levels. You pay return shipping. Must report in two weeks. Etc.

There's a picture of them all sitting proudly under the heading "5 million items graded", looking like fine upstanding people. I'm sure they are. 

Problems happen. It's how companies deal with them that defines them.

That sounded like a Batman line!

 

 

[VintageComics]

12 minutes ago, DR.X said:

I still would like to know what the " fix is ". Why would anyone send books in taking a krap shoot on having to send them back. I won't send them anything till this is resolved 100%. And where are these scratches coming from? I'd like some answers but its just a matter of time before this thread gets yanked and put on the shelf next to Ditch's.

I've noticed an increasing number of scratches when scanning books.

The scratches are not visible to the naked eye at arm's length but when scanned the scanner light causes artifact that makes the slab look scratched (worse than it actually is in hand).

It's possible that they are lightly scoring the interior of the well where the inner liner meets the outer shell in an effort to allow air to get between the two and prevent them from sticking and creating that Newton effect. That's just a wild guess, though.

[DR.X]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

It's possible that they are lightly scoring the interior of the well where the inner liner meets the outer shell in an effort to allow air to get between the two and prevent them from sticking and creating that Newton effect. That's just a wild guess, though.

what would they be scoring them with, 1000 sand paper or something. that's a wild guess but it sure would be nice to get some answers around here from the big shots.

[comicdonna]

4 hours ago, VintageComics said:

 

It's possible that they are lightly scoring the interior of the well where the inner liner meets the outer shell in an effort to allow air to get between the two and prevent them from sticking and creating that Newton effect. That's just a wild guess, though.

That's what I thought.  It's a poor attempt at a "fix".

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I Live! said:

Thank you @CGC Comics for restating your announcement about Newton Rings here in the announcements forum. I started the thread you refer to above and worked with @Brittany M. Brittany behind the scenes to get the original announcement posted there. If it's OK, I'll call refer to you as CGC the company in this post as I don't know who you are.

I have some questions on behalf of the membership which I hope you will respond to. They are drawn from the comments I have read in the various threads about the issue. Please if you will keep these two things uppermost in your mind if you do decide to reply:

• 209 members voted in my poll and an overwhelming number indicated that they were dissatisfied with your communication on this issue
• You make a great play about the new 'crystal clear' holders - this screen shot from your own website tells us how you value presentation ('superior optics'):

 

Here are the questions:

1. I have owned over 150 second generation slabs in my time. Of those that I still have, the inner and outer plastics are in full contact and yet none have rings. You say that, and I quote, "two different plastics have different refractive indexes and that sometimes creates a rainbow effect". Why only sometimes? Assuming you use the same plastics, what causes the rings to appear in one book and not another? And why did none of my 150 second generation slabs have rings?
2. Do you think it is right or fair that you decide whether a book is severe enough to be reholdered, and not the paying customer as your announcement suggests? How do you justify that position?
3. What are the scratches on the inner sleeves that are being reported by many members of this forum and are they connected to your Newton Ring resolution?
4. Is it correct that you have imposed a two week window from receipt for members to query issues with their slabs? If so, and I ask because it has been reported as such, how do you justify that position when not all recipients may / will be in a position to open their packages in that time frame (holiday / work commitments etc)?
5. Having admitted, by nature of your offer to reholder 'severely affected books', that Newton Rings are a problem, what compensation are you currently offering to those who contact you and meet the criteria? If you are not, why not?
6. Has your research into solving this problem found any evidence that rings may appear in transit, i.e. they leave your quality control ring free but subsequent shipping movements create the rings?
7. Every reasonable person who has commented on this problem has indicated that the new holder is the problem. Newton Rings may well have existed on previous generations of slabs but in nowhere near the severity we are seeing with the new holders. Why are you the only people who do not acknowledge this? Why do you not revert to the previous holder design while you redesign the new holder? 
8. When do you expect to eliminate the problem?

Thanks for your time. I hope you will feel the need to respond to these points and clear up these areas of confusion and frustration. I hope I speak for the majority when I say that we all want CGC to succeed. No one wins if your product is faulty. Please show us that you are on the same page as the majority of your paying membership.

Kind Regards,

Steve 'Get Marwood & I', RPITA 

 

[Artboy99]

reporting in regarding my latest CGC submissions.

I am very happy to receive books back with no newton rings at all.

[I like pie]

51 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

reporting in regarding my latest CGC submissions.

I am very happy to receive books back with no newton rings at all.

Scratches?

[Artboy99]

48 minutes ago, I like pie said:

Scratches?

the only slab that had scratches was my Werewolf By Night 32. Hard to see in hand but they are there. A photograph of the book and they become obvious.

Above the "E" and "W" of the title.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Artboy99

[I like pie]

Who's starting the poll on scratches?

[FSF]

For the record, I just recently sold off all of my CGC books (a few dozen). There were various reasons why but by far and away the main reason was these newton rings. It's hard to enjoy a collectible that looks so ugly.  

CGC, please get your act together.  Because your product (not your service) is abysmal by any rational standard.  You take beautiful high grade books and make them look like filler copies.