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Are Newton Rings 'normal and acceptable'?
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Are Newton Rings 'normal and acceptable' ?  

293 members have voted

  1. 1. Are Newton Rings 'normal and acceptable'?

    • Yes
    • No
    • Other (feel free to post any alternative views accordingly)
  2. 2. Should CGC withdraw from service any holders which create / are prone to create Newton Rings?

    • Yes
    • No
    • Other (feel free to post any alternative views accordingly)
  3. 3. Are you satisfied with CGC's response to date to this issue?

    • Yes
    • No
    • Other (feel free to post any alternative views accordingly)


893 posts in this topic

Are people really sending these back?

I messaged CGC (via 'contact' link) and asked. They asked for pics. I supplied pics. They said to send them back and they would reholder them for free.

 

Just ask.

Edited by Gaard
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4 minutes ago, Gaard said:

Are people really sending these back?

I messaged CGC (via 'contact' link) and asked. They asked for pics. I supplied pics. They said to send them back and they would reholder them for free.

 

Just ask.

what if you don't have your own account? 

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1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:
6 minutes ago, Gaard said:

Are people really sending these back?

I messaged CGC (via 'contact' link) and asked. They asked for pics. I supplied pics. They said to send them back and they would reholder them for free.

 

Just ask.

what if you don't have your own account? 

lol thanks for the encouragement though :foryou: for me to get off my duff..... I'll call Monday and see what I can work out....

I just didn't want to bother the LCS that sometimes I submit through... they have enough on their plate (thumbsu 

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1 hour ago, punksdropdirtysrh said:

:popcorn: I have a nice stack of books I’m itching to have graded but won’t until I hear a response. 

Same for me.  I know I'm very small potatoes in the CGC scheme of things, but I had my first submission a few months ago and have been discouraged in sending in my next batch (not counting my SS currently there).  My first batch just had too many on some (not all) the books...

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On 8/5/2018 at 2:44 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

If they would only 'loosen up' the sides of the case a little we could utilize the old trick of sticking an envelope in there. It would remove the Newton Rings everytime. 

I have no idea if the solution would be very costly or not, but the fact that some have them while others don't seems to point to a solution that's easy to correct.

 

Note: 'easy' does not equate 'cheap'.

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On 8/9/2018 at 10:44 AM, I like pie said:

Fed ex just dropped this off:|

20180809_103744.jpg

I get this back tomorrow. They turned it around quickly enough but it never showed up on my invoice list and I never got an email it shipped. Just got a fedex text today.

I'll follow up after it arrives.

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Wow, I can't believe we're up to 139 votes now. I genuinely thought this poll would fizzle out so thanks to everyone who's voted and contributed - I'm humbled by the response. It's a powerful message I feel when we all get together to support a common cause :headbang:

I've owned about 200 CGC graded comics in my time, and at one point had an ASM 100-200 9.4 run. I can say with honesty that not one of my slabs had Newton Rings that I can recall. Being a stickler for presentation, I know I would have noted and remembered it if they had.

I kept a few back after the sell off and inspected them this morning:

cgc1.thumb.jpg.766a319d02ec4669bcc764b0140117f6.jpg

 

The 126 had a cracked case so I took it out.

What I find looking at these generation holders is that the comic is quite clearly firmly pressed to the front and back of the holder. There is no gap between the inner and outer holders. If we are to believe that two plastics touching creates the NR effect automatically, why do I not see them? The ASM 194 has a black cover and would show any NRs if they were present. Even if I push down on the centre to ensure the well and inner sleeve are touching, no NRs appear. So the argument that books can leave CGC after inspection NR free, and subsequent movement during shipping creates the problem doesn't ring true to me.

cgc2.thumb.jpg.434a0820b7f402f32757fea96121c1c4.jpg

The design of the inner heat sealed sleeve (see picture above) has the book lat flat across the front. The book sits in the recess. Could this have something to do with the problem? I don't have a new generation book to compare, but I wonder if the new design intends to stop the inner well touching the outer, and when it moves and makes intermittent contact, the rings appear?

What make sense to me is that NRs did not appear on the generation of slabs that I have, and it's clear to me that the inner and outer wells are in full contact. The only thing that has changed is the new cases are 'crystal clear' and, by definition, a new type of plastic. It follows that that new plastic does create NRs when it touches the inner heat sealed sleeve.

In summary, I had 200 previous generation slabs with no NRs. The 5 I kept have no NRs and I cannot create NRs on them by pressing the cases tight - the cause, we are told, of the 'natural' phenomenon of two plastics touching.

The new generation slabs are covered in them. So the new generation slabs are the problem. No?

I've had four responses from CGC personnel and all have advised that they have forwarded the message in this poll on to senior management. No response from them so far, unless I have missed it. Does anyone know who is actually responsible for communication at CGC and have an email address they could PM me? I want to contact them direct, and ask them kindly to come and respond here formally. I want someone to take responsibility as we, the paying customer, are receiving unsatisfactory products. Looking at the voting responses, most of you want them to make a statement too. As I noted earlier in the thread, I want to submit my keys through the new London office but this is stopping me doing so. Not only because I fear that they would come back with NRs but also because I begrudge giving my money to a business who ignores the valid concerns of its members and users. Unfortunately, CGC are our only choice as they have no comparable competition. But it's simply not on to remain silent. Someone at CGC has to decide if NRs are, as the title of the poll suggests, 'normal and acceptable'. If they are, then they should abide by that decision, make it known and not accept NR related reholder requests. Accepting reholder requests is itself an admission that the NRs are not 'normal and acceptable' is it not?   

Keep voting people! Nothing changes if we put up with bad service.

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29 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

 

I have always enjoyed reading about the Newton Ring issue here.

This is a Pretty good read, but:

29 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

If we are to believe that two plastics touching creates the NR effect automatically, 

It doesn't, in my humble opinion. It is composition of the chemical makeup of the holder, the contamination of same, and the curing of same prior to use, and clean room control, via HVAC systems/filtration, and negative air pressure, all during manufacturing/final assembly and use.

Ever paint an automobile, using various products, and coatings over underlying metals/sanded original coatings/body fillers? The effect appears, and one old timer method has been to let the combination of fillers/undercoats/final coats breathe, by moving the vehicle into the sunshine for a time everyday. The effect eventually reduces.

So why does it occur on some and not others? I would think a little investigation, at the point of manufacture, would be helpful in determine air quality contamination via HVAC delivery systems, Cooling Tower interface with RTUs, negative air pressure conditions and moisture contaminants (water).

If I want to soften an epoxy/pseudo epoxy/plasticized material, I am going to using MEK. I am not going to harden the material with it. I am not going to "clean" or limit impurities by moisture.

Epoxies/plasticzed material continues to shed (cure). Another little known phenomena is that  concrete floors continue to bleed up to 5 years. The surface has to be opened and allowed to breathe and a vapor barrier installed, before painting/epoxy coating or applying various sub-floor adhesives. The moisture content is easily determined. An oily type appearance is usually one of the first indications of contamination. This is a critical operation in factories involved in end use production of foods, window films/coatings/ epoxy/plasticized products. 

Just an opinion, of course. And yes, I understand a person is not going to expose to the sun a holder with a comic inside it. That is not the point. (Or should theyhm)

The various "reasons" I have read for the phenomenon may be contributing, but are not the reason. IMHO. Could the holders become contaminated after the fact, due to improper sealing? Sure. could sonic heat applications of the final product, that occurs after contamination has already taken place or curing has not occurred cause it? Sure.

Wash your car. Rinse it. Let me know how many rainbow/oily colors you see. It will be a lot. if there is body filler, it will be prevalent, because there are impurities.

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6 minutes ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said:
1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

If we are to believe that two plastics touching creates the NR effect automatically, 

It doesn't, in my humble opinion

And you're probably right.  I'm not an expert on the properties of different plastics and how they interact with each other under different circumstances. I suspect 99%+ of us have no technical expertise or knowledge in that field. For me, it's only important that CGC have that expertise. It's their job to leverage the right expertise to eliminate the problem. As a layman, I see old cases without NRs and new cases with. So I conclude the new cases are the problem. I just want CGC to acknowledge the problem, manage our shared concerns,  and state what they intend to do about it.

Joking aside, give them a ring Mr McK.  You seem to know what you're talking about and may be able to help them finesse a technical solution. 

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12 hours ago, skypinkblu said:

There are more, but it seems to show a lot on yellow.  Before and after

1061351844_sensationcomics98cgc500001.thumb.jpg.f3e681ee7b2ce5211149bc4fd2ca4e80.jpg

Do any of your slabs have NRs on the back Sharon? 

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1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

And you're probably right.  I'm not an expert on the properties of different plastics and how they interact with each other under different circumstances. I suspect 99%+ of us have no technical expertise or knowledge in that field. For me, it's only important that CGC have that expertise. It's their job to leverage the right expertise to eliminate the problem. As a layman, I see old cases without NRs and new cases with. So I conclude the new cases are the problem. I just want CGC to acknowledge the problem, manage our shared concerns,  and state what they intend to do about it.

Joking aside, give them a ring Mr McK.  You seem to know what you're talking about and may be able to help them finesse a technical solution. 

I did. 3 months ago. CGC does not manufacture. It is the end user. I understood that when I called. I do know the source changed. I am still of the opinion hat the factory conditions of the new source is the issue, be it contamination/curing time and/or raw product blending/manufacturing. I would be very surprised if the end user has not already started the elimination process.

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