Is House Of Secrets #92 the next Incredible Hulk #181? 0

[scooter99]

2 hours ago, Ryan. said:

You sure if it wasn't Wrightson's passing that spurred interest?

+1. 

[Randall Ries]

7 hours ago, Ryan. said:

You sure if it wasn't Wrightson's passing that spurred interest?

The book has always been of interest. Wrightson's death certainly spurred the pricing spike.

[blackbears86]

I don't think anyone can debate it's certainly much tougher to obtain in high grade compared to Hulk 181.

 

I'm glad the book is getting it's due.  It's an iconic cover, by a legend who has now unfortunately passed. I personally think it's still undervalued.

 

 

[scooter99]

Try finding a high grade copy, perfectly centered with white pages and without tanning.  Hen's teeth. 

[Randall Ries]

6 hours ago, scooter99 said:

Try finding a high grade copy, perfectly centered with white pages and without tanning.  Hen's teeth. 

That's right. The book has a black cover as well. Most copies I have seen fall into the ow page quality. Many cr/ow. Some ow/w. Very very few white pages. There are also a few I have seen with a printing error that adds a horizontal line through Ms. Simonson's head. Even at high quality, that is still a ding in my book. One color break in the cover is hard to look at for me.

I think this book is far more valuable for many reasons than IH 181. IH 181 is a bandwagon book, inflating its value. HOS 92 is a true rarity. If given a choice, I would take a 9.6 HOS 92 WP over a 9.6 IH181 WP all day long. Try finding the former vs the latter. You will have MUCH MUCH better luck with the latter.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Randall Ries

[bronze johnny]

1 hour ago, Randall Ries said:

That's right. The book has a black cover as well. Most copies I have seen fall into the ow page quality. Many cr/ow. Some ow/w. Very very few white pages. There are also a few I have seen with a printing error that adds a horizontal line through Ms. Simonson's head. Even at high quality, that is still a ding in my book. One color break in the cover is hard to look at for me.

I think this book is far more valuable for many reasons than IH 181. IH 181 is a bandwagon book, inflating its value. HOS 92 is a true rarity. If given a choice, I would take a 9.6 HOS 92 WP over a 9.6 IH181 WP all day long. Try finding the former vs the latter. You will have MUCH MUCH better luck with the latter.

You keep knocking Hulk 181. I get you're not a big fan of the book. Nevertheless, Hulk 181 is the Bronze Age's Amazing Fantasy 15. Sure HOS 92 is scarcer but there are a hell of a lot more graded copies of AF 15 than FF1, Hulk 1, or SC 4. AF 15 is the AC 1 of the Silver Age. Hulk 181 has achieved a status unequaled in the Bronze Age. The fascinating thing about Wolverine is that he's a very different iconic superhero- an anti-hero who grew within the greatest superhero team of the 20th Century (sorry FF fans- even a Disney purchase isn't going to mean that the first book of the SA had a bigger impact on the history of comic books than the Mutant Age of Comics). The Mutant Age of Comics dominated 30+ years of the world of mainstream comic books. Wolverine is an incredibly popular character- I recently asked my 10 year daughter and her friends which character they prefer: Spider-Man? Superman? Batman? Wolverine? It was the unanimous for Wolverine! The character is iconic. Do you think Swampy can carry an era of comic books for DC? For your information, Wrightson is at the top of my favorites among the greatest horror artists and HOS 92 is one of the all-time greats that I personally prefer to Hulk 181. But comparing it to Hulk 181 and saying that it's a bigger key is silly (you're much smarter than that given the content of your posts). There are plenty of big books out there that I couldn't care less about but I respect the reasons why they are keys. As far as speculators and Hulk 181, speculation has been running rampant for some time. HOS 92 is also a "bandwagon" book not immune to the speculation. Ultimately, a book will be defined by the impact it had during the era it came out and what that character meant to the generation of readers living at the time. The degree to how great a book is will be defined by time and how the character has evolved and adapted to the changes that come with how posterity views and weighs the values and whether they still identify with that character. There are a handful of superhero characters that have achieved the highest degree of greatness through generations. Wolverine is one. Swamp Thing is not (even though the horror comic fan in me prefers Swampie and nobody drew him better than Bernie). Both books are essentials for a great comic book collection. Only, Hulk 181 will be sought after first by a consensus of serious collectors. Sure it's easier to find in higher grades but that doesn't tell the whole story and never will. There are a hell of a lot more variables needed to define a book- the history of that book and character(s) among the vital factors to assess before drawing any kind of serious conclusion.

[Randall Ries]

5 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

You keep knocking Hulk 181. I get you're not a big fan of the book. Nevertheless, Hulk 181 is the Bronze Age's Amazing Fantasy 15. Sure HOS 92 is scarcer but there are a hell of a lot more graded copies of AF 15 than FF1, Hulk 1, or SC 4. AF 15 is the AC 1 of the Silver Age. Hulk 181 has achieved a status unequaled in the Bronze Age. The fascinating thing about Wolverine is that he's a very different iconic superhero- an anti-hero who grew within the greatest superhero team of the 20th Century (sorry FF fans- even a Disney purchase isn't going to mean that the first book of the SA had a bigger impact on the history of comic books than the Mutant Age of Comics). The Mutant Age of Comics dominated 30+ years of the world of mainstream comic books. Wolverine is an incredibly popular character- I recently asked my 10 year daughter and her friends which character they prefer: Spider-Man? Superman? Batman? Wolverine? It was the unanimous for Wolverine! The character is iconic. Do you think Swampy can carry an era of comic books for DC? For your information, Wrightson is at the top of my favorites among the greatest horror artists and HOS 92 is one of the all-time greats that I personally prefer to Hulk 181. But comparing it to Hulk 181 and saying that it's a bigger key is silly (you're much smarter than that given the content of your posts). There are plenty of big books out there that I couldn't care less about but I respect the reasons why they are keys. As far as speculators and Hulk 181, speculation has been running rampant for some time. HOS 92 is also a "bandwagon" book not immune to the speculation. Ultimately, a book will be defined by the impact it had during the era it came out and what that character meant to the generation of readers living at the time. The degree to how great a book is will be defined by time and how the character has evolved and adapted to the changes that come with how posterity views and weighs the values and whether they still identify with that character. There are a handful of superhero characters that have achieved the highest degree of greatness through generations. Wolverine is one. Swamp Thing is not (even though the horror comic fan in me prefers Swampie and nobody drew him better than Bernie). Both books are essentials for a great comic book collection. Only, Hulk 181 will be sought after first by a consensus of serious collectors. Sure it's easier to find in higher grades but that doesn't tell the whole story and never will. There are a hell of a lot more variables needed to define a book- the history of that book and character(s) among the vital factors to assess before drawing any kind of serious conclusion.

I already mentioned somewhere that my comparisons were meant to be "silly". It's an apples/oranges thing. I do realize that IH 181 is the high bar in bronze age collecting. I also know why it is the high bar, the variables as you say. I'm not knocking the book. I would like to have one. But I can't/won't spend that kind of money on a book that's so plentiful.

With the exception of the Alan Moore "American Gothic" storyline, I still don't feel ST has gotten his due. There is so much that could be done with that character it is mind boggling. I am not a fan of Wolverine admittedly. I never understood why he is such a big deal. The biggest drawback ST has is it's a DC character. When they finally do make the movie, it will be botched beyond belief. To Marvels credit, they did not botch ANY of their movies except the FF movies. The X-Men and Wolvie movies were awesome. If they had sucked, I wonder where we would be with IH 181? This new movie generation collectors market would not have catapulted Wolvie to where he is now and that would be reflected in IH 181 value as well.

I disagree that HOS 92 is a bandwagon book. It has quietly increased in value steadily over the years. It has a dignity about it that IH 181 lacks. And when Wolverine finally goes away, the value of IH 181 will level off.

I am only comparing recent spikes in different books against IH 181 to see if the books in question could ever match the desirability and collectability of IH 181. It's fun to see some books approaching that high bar that IH 181 has set.

[shane1956]

"And when Wolverine finally goes away, the value of IH 181 will level off" .

When Wolverine goes away it's safe to say that basically the entire Marvel Universe will be going as well. The character has been a main pillar of the comic book industry at least 30 plus years . Over that time the character has easily been one of the most iconic and well recognized of all the superhero genres . 

Outside that comment I see and agree with the point you were trying to make. 

 

[bronze johnny]

5 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

I already mentioned somewhere that my comparisons were meant to be "silly". It's an apples/oranges thing. I do realize that IH 181 is the high bar in bronze age collecting. I also know why it is the high bar, the variables as you say. I'm not knocking the book. I would like to have one. But I can't/won't spend that kind of money on a book that's so plentiful.

With the exception of the Alan Moore "American Gothic" storyline, I still don't feel ST has gotten his due. There is so much that could be done with that character it is mind boggling. I am not a fan of Wolverine admittedly. I never understood why he is such a big deal. The biggest drawback ST has is it's a DC character. When they finally do make the movie, it will be botched beyond belief. To Marvels credit, they did not botch ANY of their movies except the FF movies. The X-Men and Wolvie movies were awesome. If they had sucked, I wonder where we would be with IH 181? This new movie generation collectors market would not have catapulted Wolvie to where he is now and that would be reflected in IH 181 value as well.

I disagree that HOS 92 is a bandwagon book. It has quietly increased in value steadily over the years. It has a dignity about it that IH 181 lacks. And when Wolverine finally goes away, the value of IH 181 will level off.

I am only comparing recent spikes in different books against IH 181 to see if the books in question could ever match the desirability and collectability of IH 181. It's fun to see some books approaching that high bar that IH 181 has set.

Again, I love HOS 92 and prefer it to Hulk 181. I am delighted to have exceptional copies of both books in my collection that have, and let me place great emphasis on this: never been pressed or squished into a pancake. You're correct about the availability of Hulk 181s but the true scarcity of this book can be described as a 9.2 or above copy with a "plumpy" spine that's never been pressed or squished. Let me suggest that if you happen to come across an unpressed  original owner copy, grab it and cherish the book. The same of course, holds true for a HOS 92. I'm willing to bet the existing 9.6s to 9.8s have been flattened like pancakes. I would take an unpressed 9.0, 9.2, or 9.4 any day over flattened copies in higher grades (sacrilege! Lol). Buy the book not the grade.

Agree with you about Moore's Swampy- fantastic! 

Let me suggest you not rely on the movie translates into comic book readers and collectors. It does translate into speculators including perhaps, some speculators who will buy multiple copies of a key book prior to movie announcements or in the case of FF 1 & 48, Disney buying Fox entertainment.

I've been collecting since my childhood back in the late 70s and can tell you that HOS 92 has always been a desired book. I remember reading back in the early '90s and see references to HOS 92 as a key top 20 Bronze Age. DC didn't have much in terms of creativity when compared to Marvel. GL 76, Bats 232, All-Star Western 10, and HOS 92 were the highlights. So we can agree to disagree about the sudden jump in HOS 92 especially when a new Swampy series is coming and the speculators love comic book characters appearing in other mediums.

Edited August 6, 2018 by bronze johnny

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, bronze johnny said:

Again, I love HOS 92 and prefer it to Hulk 181. I am delighted to have exceptional copies of both books in my collection that have, and let me place great emphasis on this: never been pressed or squished into a pancake. You're correct about the availability of Hulk 181s but the true scarcity of this book can be described as a 9.2 or above copy with a "plumpy" spine that's never been pressed or squished. Let me suggest that if you happen to come across an unpressed  original owner copy, grab it and cherish the book. The same of course, holds true for a HOS 92. I'm willing to bet the existing 9.6s to 9.8s have been flattened like pancakes. I would take an unpressed 9.0, 9.2, or 9.4 any day over flattened copies in higher grades (sacrilege! Lol). Buy the book not the grade.

 

I'm in total agreement with you. All I see nowadays are books with that pancaked look. Real collectors have unpressed books ! Someday, originality will be valued for more than an opportunity to press.

[Randall Ries]

10 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

Again, I love HOS 92 and prefer it to Hulk 181. I am delighted to have exceptional copies of both books in my collection that have, and let me place great emphasis on this: never been pressed or squished into a pancake. You're correct about the availability of Hulk 181s but the true scarcity of this book can be described as a 9.2 or above copy with a "plumpy" spine that's never been pressed or squished. Let me suggest that if you happen to come across an unpressed  original owner copy, grab it and cherish the book. The same of course, holds true for a HOS 92. I'm willing to bet the existing 9.6s to 9.8s have been flattened like pancakes. I would take an unpressed 9.0, 9.2, or 9.4 any day over flattened copies in higher grades (sacrilege! Lol). Buy the book not the grade.

Agree with you about Moore's Swampy- fantastic! 

Let me suggest you not rely on the movie translates into comic book readers and collectors. It does translate into speculators including perhaps, some speculators who will buy multiple copies of a key book prior to movie announcements or in the case of FF 1 & 48, Disney buying Fox entertainment.

I've been collecting since my childhood back in the late 70s and can tell you that HOS 92 has always been a desired book. I remember reading back in the early '90s and see references to HOS 92 as a key top 20 Bronze Age. DC didn't have much in terms of creativity when compared to Marvel. GL 76, Bats 232, All-Star Western 10, and HOS 92 were the highlights. So we can agree to disagree about the sudden jump in HOS 92 especially when a new Swampy series is coming and the speculators love comic book characters appearing in other mediums.

I feel Wrightsons passing has a lot to do with spike, of course. It affected an already solid book, a cornerstone of the late Silver age, if you will. So, we have that going for us. I traded my graded 9.0 for some golden age and six months later, Wrightson was gone. D'oh! The trader sold his copy right away, I think. D'oh for him too. I replaced it with a 7.5 graded when I realized I can't be without a copy, which also looks very nice.

The first time I read ST 21 and Moore led me through the whole "You were always a plant that thought he was Alec Holland", that is the first time I completely understood the statement "Getting your mind blown". That was genius. And genius is in sometimes short supply at DC. They were lucky to have gotten Moore for so long.

It's ironic to me that DC is going to make the ST TV series. I am horrified and apprehensive. The perfect mood for the horror genre! I wish it well as I am sure you do. This will make or break the character. At the very least, ST will go back to the swamps unnoticed by the masses. They better not fux it up. I will be very put out.

I would most certainly accept an ungraded fluffy IH 181 from a private, unknown collection. An older man in the area has been storing his sons books at his house. His son collected Marvel in the 1970's. I know almost for sure there is a run of IH. The old man will not let me near the books because they are his sons.

To some degree, the movies must add a segment of new collectors but certainly scads of speculators. Again, it is a book I would like to have but not one I will purchase on the top of a bubble. If this is indeed what it is.

I have a Superman #23 I thought about getting pressed. It's around a 6.5-7.0 raw. First time someone mentioned staple pop, that option was off the table. If I want a 9.0 of a certain book, I will buy a 9.0 and not crunch it into a 9.0. I have nothing against pressing per se. If it vastly improves a book then gopher it.

Always buy the book and not the grade. I bought a 7.5 GL #76 because that was all I could afford (Dare afford. More than that and the wife would have had an "issue" with it. Get it? "Issue"?). I love the book and so it's a reasonable grade and looks good for a 7.5. I have some 7.0 Adams Strange Adventures that are AWESOME! The grader must have fought with his wife the night before because I cannot see why they are 7.0. The price was right and I snabbed them.

Bought the Bat 251 for $115. Had I only known I would have bout 20 of them. But. I loved the book and $115 was fair at the time for a 9.0.

The joy of collecting.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Randall Ries

[bronze johnny]

16 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I'm in total agreement with you. All I see nowadays are books with that pancaked look. Real collectors have unpressed books ! Someday, originality will be valued for more than an opportunity to press.

Perhaps it's time to start referring to these books as "pancakes?"

Or an IHOP book?

It's HOpelessly Pressed 

Edited August 6, 2018 by bronze johnny

[Bomber-Bob]

4 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

Perhaps it's time to start referring to these books as "pancakes?"

Or an IHOP book?

It's HOpelessly Pressed 

Unfortunately, we are in the minority on this topic. Most like their books flat. 

[Keys_Collector]

Every popular Bronze Age book is now speculated as "the next Hulk 181"...let the 181 wave ride and see what happens.  HOS is a great book but Swamp Thing does not have, and probably will never have, the same pop culture icon status as Wolverine or Hulk.  

[bronze johnny]

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Unfortunately, we are in the minority on this topic. Most like their books flat. 

Is it because flat = $$$?

[NoMan]

2 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Unfortunately, we are in the minority on this topic. Most like their books flat. 

I was putting a HG (9.2 - 9.6) raw unpressed Xmen 94 - 150 run together to read. For some of those issues it's tough to find them A) not in a slab, B) not pressed, which in a way made the hunt more challenging and fun (?) as it's f - ing impossible to find someone that hasn't tried to squeeze that last extra $ out of a key book. Stumbled upon a large well know mail order place (not MCS) and asked for some xmen issues in the run that weren't  pressed. Their response, "Oh we press everything. Even the 5 dollar books. We like the look of pressed books."

I got an xmen 94 CGC 9.4 that looks unnatural it's pressed so flat. 

[bronze johnny]

15 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I was putting a HG (9.2 - 9.6) raw unpressed Xmen 94 - 150 run together to read. For some of those issues it's tough to find them A) not in a slab, B) not pressed, which in a way made the hunt more challenging and fun (?) as it's f - ing impossible to find someone that hasn't tried to squeeze that last extra $ out of a key book. Stumbled upon a large well know mail order place (not MCS) and asked for some xmen issues in the run that weren't  pressed. Their response, "Oh we press everything. Even the 5 dollar books. We like the look of pressed books."

I got an xmen 94 CGC 9.4 that looks unnatural it's pressed so flat. 

"Oh we press everything..." Sounds like a dry cleaning establishment! 

Getting an unpressed X-Men 94 - 150 run is a tremendous achievement. 

[NoMan]

12 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

"Oh we press everything..." Sounds like a dry cleaning establishment! 

Getting an unpressed X-Men 94 - 150 run is a tremendous achievement. 

have two 94s. one squeezed to a 9.4 the other, the other i'd say its a 7.0 - 7.5 raw. got that from a boardie that doesn't care for pressing so I'm sure that's not pressed. other's I got from a reliable dealer that says' they aren't pressed but who knows, right? They look natural and normal. 

 

[Chillax23]

While I think HOS92 is a great book and was undervalued ... it to is subject to speculation as it had a run-up prior to Wrightson's unfortunate passing.  This run-up happened to be tied to the rumors around a Justice League Dark Movie - which saw Zatanna and Swamp Thing have run-ups in their respective first appearances, Hawkman 4 has dropped since then, whereas HOS92 has retained the run-up and continued to gain (no doubt partly linked to Wrightson's death).

 

[Randall Ries]

7 hours ago, Chillax23 said:

While I think HOS92 is a great book and was undervalued ... it to is subject to speculation as it had a run-up prior to Wrightson's unfortunate passing.  This run-up happened to be tied to the rumors around a Justice League Dark Movie - which saw Zatanna and Swamp Thing have run-ups in their respective first appearances, Hawkman 4 has dropped since then, whereas HOS92 has retained the run-up and continued to gain (no doubt partly linked to Wrightson's death).

 

I have noticed when key books get run ups due to this or that, they usually retain the new value. I don't know if I would call Zatanna's first appearance a "key" or not.