What percent of existing copies of Action 1, Detective 27, Superman 1, and Batman 1 are already CGC graded? 1 1

[Gotham Kid]

2 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

There’s a fairly well known so cal collector that has 3 action 1s, 2 tec 27s and multiple of bat, supes and cap 1 in fortresses.

wow !

[Gotham Kid]

Metro must keep tabs on all those fellas ...

Edited July 28, 2018 by Gotham Kid

[Crowzilla]

6 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

On the contrary there should be a very high incentive to slab.

If you are a 60+ old timer sitting on a raw action 1 purchased a gazillion years ago. You would certainly be looking towards Sarasoto to get your book through resto evaluation, determine FMV, etc.

And yet, according to your reasoning the person who has more to gain than anyone from slabbing and meets your criteria (60+ years old, raw Action 1 purchased 30+ years ago), still has slabbed none of his personal collection.

Lots of old-timers follow his example (or if not follow, at least have the same way of thinking).

If we take it as gospel that probably half of the ten most valuable single issues in the hobby have not been slabbed yet, why wouldn't it be a similar percentage if you expand those numbers outwards?

But I guess it doesn't matter how many examples Gator posts, there will still be those who think those examples are the only exceptions and surely everyone else has gotten theirs slabbed by now.

[Chicago Boy]

8 minutes ago, Crowzilla said:

And yet, according to your reasoning the person who has more to gain than anyone from slabbing and meets your criteria (60+ years old, raw Action 1 purchased 30+ years ago), still has slabbed none of his personal collection.

Lots of old-timers follow his example (or if not follow, at least have the same way of thinking).

If we take it as gospel that probably half of the ten most valuable single issues in the hobby have not been slabbed yet, why wouldn't it be a similar percentage if you expand those numbers outwards?

But I guess it doesn't matter how many examples Gator posts, there will still be those who think those examples are the only exceptions and surely everyone else has gotten theirs slabbed by now.

I think we need to reconsider calling 60 year olds”old timers”

[Get Marwood & I]

39 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

Moldy books? 

Get them graded by the opposition and you can lay claim to owning a moldy voldy 

[Crowzilla]

6 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

I think we need to reconsider calling 60 year olds”old timers”

I certainly don't feel it's old in actual age, but have no problem calling anyone who has been collecting for 40 or more years an old-timer as far as collecting goes.

[TeddieMercede]

1 hour ago, Wayne-Tec said:

I’ve collected GA keys for years and my preference since the early/mid 2000s has been to have valuable books slabbed. Access to reprints is available, so I’m able to “read” these books without risking grade degradation.

Not a big concern for a $100 book. But if you owned, say, a 5.0 Action Comics #1, every time you “read” it, thumb through it, it’s not difficult to turn a 5.0 into a 4.5.

If you’re a multimillionaire, perhaps the consequence there are insignificant. But I don’t believe the majority of raw Action #1 owners are so wealthy that such things cease to matter. Perhaps I’m wrong there.

The financial incentive to slab/sell books like Action #1 has never been greater. Hence, we’ve seen 69 copies slabbed by CGC (40 of which are blue label).

I’m not saying that there isn’t truth to the talk of raw copies sitting in collections of older generation collectors who aren’t motivated to slab. What I am saying is, considering all of the above, I’m apprehensive about just how many such examples remain publicly undiscovered under that context.

Grading major keys isn’t cheap - comics held up fine before CGC decided to encase them in plastic. Unless you’re selling most of these old timers have 0 reason to throw em in a slab.

[lou_fine]

2 minutes ago, TeddieMercede said:

Grading major keys isn’t cheap - comics held up fine before CGC decided to encase them in plastic. Unless you’re selling most of these old timers have 0 reason to throw em in a slab.

+1

If you are a long time collector of comics from well before the CGC days, you would most likely not even think about slabbing a book until it comes time to sell it.  Besides all of the other points already raised, just imagine all of the additional storage space it would take as compared to just sitting in a beautiful glossy mylar holder.

Now, if you are a CGC generation collector, I can totally understand your line of thinking because raw books would never come across your mind as virtually all of your collecting experience have been with only slabbed books.

[N e r V]

If you’re a collector that has put together a collection for years and you are in a financially comfortable place in life and no pressing disaster in life forces you to part with your books and you still enjoy the collection why in the world would anyone want to slab it?

I grew up in collecting when most collectors were not high profile and simply bought and traded books without interacting with the comic business side other than to buy books. How many are left out there is anyone’s guess but I can say from my own personal knowledge that collections of great depth with GA books do still exist in the “wild” and are unlikely to show up on anyone’s “radar” unless the owners circumstances would vastly change.

[Wayne-Tec]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

If you’re a collector that has put together a collection for years and you are in a financially comfortable place in life and no pressing disaster in life forces you to part with your books and you still enjoy the collection why in the world would anyone want to slab it?

I grew up in collecting when most collectors were not high profile and simply bought and traded books without interacting with the comic business side other than to buy books. How many are left out there is anyone’s guess but I can say from my own personal knowledge that collections of great depth with GA books do still exist in the “wild” and are unlikely to show up on anyone’s “radar” unless the owners circumstances would vastly change.

My question is, how many non-millionaire old school collectors value their Action #1s more than they would the tuition of a grandchild’s college education, or more than the cost to own a house? Because that’s the point we are at with some of these books.

I do not believe that the majority of these Action #1 owners (private raw collections) are millionaires. I believe many are/were old school, passionate people who love our hobby and acquired these books before six-figures became entry-level. I also believe many of the people who fit that profile have let their Action #1s out of their collections and cashed in. We’ve seen the census numbers go up.

It would take an extreme level of discipline for a non-super wealthy collector to say no to that incentive and keep their Action #1 raw, in their own private collections. I’m sure it happens, just don’t know how many examples there are of that out there.

[Sqeggs]

2 hours ago, TeddieMercede said:

Grading major keys isn’t cheap - comics held up fine before CGC decided to encase them in plastic. Unless you’re selling most of these old timers have 0 reason to throw em in a slab.

Keeping them safe from accidental damage?  I'm not sitting on any ungraded megakeys, but if I were, I would breathe easier with the books slabbed and in a safety deposit box.  Even if I were fine keeping them in Mylars, I'd probably still want a resto check to get a better fix on what I had.  Of course, it is possible to have that done without getting the book graded.

[Sqeggs]

37 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said:

My question is, how many non-millionaire old school collectors value their Action #1s more than they would the tuition of a grandchild’s college education, or more than the cost to own a house? Because that’s the point we are at with some of these books.

I do not believe that the majority of these Action #1 owners (private raw collections) are millionaires. I believe many are/were old school, passionate people who love our hobby and acquired these books before six-figures became entry-level. I also believe many of the people who fit that profile have let their Action #1s out of their collections and cashed in. We’ve seen the census numbers go up.

It would take an extreme level of discipline for a non-super wealthy collector to say no to that incentive and keep their Action #1 raw, in their own private collections. I’m sure it happens, just don’t know how many examples there are of that out there.

I'm inclined to agree with this, which is why I would come down on the side of there not being very many ungraded Action 1s or Tec 27s out there.  

I suppose that if you were a collector of moderate means who was childless and had no great desire to travel, buy a vacation home, support a charity, or whatever, you might be indifferent to the fact that a book you may have spent a few thousand on is now worth, say, a million or more.  I don't know how many such collectors there are.  Certainly possible that there are dozens of them, but it seems unlikely to me.  I guess we will gradually find out over the next couple of decades as the census counts on these books either does or doesn't change much.

[Crowzilla]

4 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

Keeping them safe from accidental damage?  I'm not sitting on any ungraded megakeys, but if I were, I would breathe easier with the books slabbed and in a safety deposit box.  Even if I were fine keeping them in Mylars, I'd probably still want a resto check to get a better fix on what I had.  Of course, it is possible to have that done without getting the book graded.

And yet, time and time again we are faced with examples of people doing just the opposite. We already know the two most valuable books in the hobby aren't graded. Neither is the best Superman #1. Verzyl didn't have the Church Marvel #1 graded. Larson Action #1? Not graded. Church Detective 27? Not graded. KC Flash #1? Not graded. Church Bat #1? Not graded. Etc., etc.

Bangzoom is a perfect example of old-school collector mentality. Not a super-rich guy - at least not until he cashes his collection in, and yet everything is not only ungraded, most aren't even in mylars.

Time and again these examples are put forth to the members of these boards, but some people just refuse to believe.

 

[Sqeggs]

1 minute ago, Crowzilla said:

And yet, time and time again we are faced with examples of people doing just the opposite. We already know the two most valuable books in the hobby aren't graded. Neither is the best Superman #1. Verzyl didn't have the Church Marvel #1 graded. Larson Action #1? Not graded. Church Detective 27? Not graded. KC Flash #1? Not graded. Church Bat #1? Not graded. Etc., etc.

Bangzoom is a perfect example of old-school collector mentality. Not a super-rich guy - at least not until he cashes his collection in, and yet everything is not only ungraded, most aren't even in mylars.

Time and again these examples are put forth to the members of these boards, but some people just refuse to believe.

 

No one I know of denies that are some ungraded copies because obviously there are.  The question is are there dozens? Hundreds?  Maybe there are a lot of Bangzooms out there.  It would be neat both for them and the hobby if there were.  But I know of no way of knowing and I'm skeptical that there are a large number of collectors who are not only uninterested in selling these books but don't even want to have them graded to see what they've got.

I could be wrong, but only time will tell. 

[Mr bla bla]

1 hour ago, Wayne-Tec said:

My question is, how many non-millionaire old school collectors value their Action #1s more than they would the tuition of a grandchild’s college education, or more than the cost to own a house? Because that’s the point we are at with some of these books.

I do not believe that the majority of these Action #1 owners (private raw collections) are millionaires. I believe many are/were old school, passionate people who love our hobby and acquired these books before six-figures became entry-level. I also believe many of the people who fit that profile have let their Action #1s out of their collections and cashed in. We’ve seen the census numbers go up.

It would take an extreme level of discipline for a non-super wealthy collector to say no to that incentive and keep their Action #1 raw, in their own private collections. I’m sure it happens, just don’t know how many examples there are of that out there.

Exactly! For that type of collector-profile the incentive to slab is huge.

[Mr bla bla]

6 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

There’s a fairly well known so cal collector that has 3 action 1s, 2 tec 27s and multiple of bat, supes and cap 1 in fortresses. When I asked him “why haven’t you certified them” his response was “why would I”...

Another Cali Collector has 2 each (1 raw, 1 coverless) action 1 & tec 27

collector in Nc that has bat 1s 3 deep in fortresses 

New Jersey collector has the big 3 and second big 3 in mylars (5 of the 6 have resto mind you)

certain Chicago collector has a raw action 1 he’s lets boardies thumb up at con dinners  

goes on and on

 

Tip of the iceberg folks...tip of the iceberg. 

Gator, that sounds completely crazy. Congrats to these guys. I wonder if these type of examples come in larger numbers ...?

Edited July 28, 2018 by Mr bla bla

[catman76]

About 15 years ago I met a 1920s blues and jazz 78 record collector who had almost no connection to other collectors at all, no one at all knows the insanely rare records this guy has, he has no interest in going around announcing and showing off what he has, it's all for him he just enjoys it and spent 50 years finding it all. If there's a guy like that in the 78 record world where there literally are only 5 or less existing copies of lots of records, there has to be way more comic book collectors out there sitting on stuff like Action 1 and Detective 27 that are very very plentiful in comparison.

Edited July 28, 2018 by catman76
fixed spelling

[G.A.tor]

27 minutes ago, Mr bla bla said:

Gator, that sounds completely crazy. Congrats to these guys. I wonder if these type of examples come in larger numbers ...?

I have many  more examples and obviously there will be some overlap with other dealers but I suspect there are lots. 

[porcupine48]

5 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Moldy books? 

My books are too classy for mold.If they had it,which they don't,it would be mould,thank you very much! 

P.S-I have one of the Big Three issues...

Spoiler

this isn't my copy,but I have one

 

[batman_fan]

even loser collectors like me have keys that are still raw even though I am very familiar with CGC.