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HA Summer Signature Auction Aug 2-4
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233 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, malvin said:

but its live auction, there can't be a previous bid at the same amount.

Malvin

 

If the lot is opening at lets say $1000 and someone else had a prior max of $2600.  Then someone enters $2600 on HA Live, or perhaps even multiple people enter $2600.  Whoever entered $2600 first (the non HA Live bidder in this instance) would win at $2600.  

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2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

I think some of you are taking the argument way too literally.  No one said that people are only buying keys and that everything else is going down.  Of course, most books sold are not keys or classic covers.  It's like the stock market this year (at least before Facebook blew up) - more than 100% of the gains in the market could be attributable to just five stocks, and, over the past few years, there's been a cohort of maybe a couple dozen stocks that have hugely outpaced the market (the "keys" as it were) and accounted for most of the market's gains.  Doesn't mean that the rest of the market is going down.  Doesn't mean that most of the trading doesn't occur in the thousands of other (non-key) stocks or that some of those stocks aren't doing well too.  It just means that the participation and price performance is favoring those key stocks above all else.

Same with the comic market.  Of course most of the transaction volume is in non-key books, and many of those books are on the rise.  But, let's face it - there's been a marked shift to keys in recent years and away from run collecting, which featured much more predominantly in the 2000s and early 2010s in the CGC era (remember the titanic Brulato-Schmell wars which would send top census Marvel non-keys to absurd levels?)  Also note:  the market is not just key collectors and run collectors; someone who buys an Action #87 might not be trying to complete any kind of run, even if the book is not a key.  Same with the Berk collection - people are probably not trying to complete runs of those titles; they just wanted nice copies of books that are hard to find.

Similarly, by definition, most of the OA that trades hands is not A-quality.  But, we're definitely seeing the A/B spread blowing out beyond historic norms, a trend which looks to continue barring a major setback in the market. 2c   

If you were a run collector 10 years ago and completed say Batman 1 to 100, here is an example of where you would be if you sold them today.

Batman 1, 11, 18, 23, 37, 40, 42, 44, 47, 49, 52, 65, 66, 73, 84 = home runs

Batman 2, 3, 4, 9, 15, 20, 38 = okay

Batman everything else = so-so, definitely not an ROI that kept up with inflation

Now of course this is a high level overview and there will be exceptions to the rule, especially in uber high grade but I think this follows for all titles.

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13 minutes ago, AnkurJ said:

The winning bid should have been 2800 then.

By virtue of the bidding going back and forth, your bid might have been the 2400 bid, and you would have lost to the 2600 bid that followed.  Many people don't realize that this is what the bid protection function is for - you might be willing to go to 2600, but, depending on the order of bidding, you may be the one placing the 2400 bid and losing out to the bid at 2600.  That is, someone bids 2200.  Your proxy bid outbids him at 2400. He bids 2600. Now your 2600 proxy bid is invalidated because someone is already at that level.  

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7 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

By virtue of the bidding going back and forth, your bid might have been the 2400 bid, and you would have lost to the 2600 bid that followed.  Many people don't realize that this is what the bid protection function is for - you might be willing to go to 2600, but, depending on the order of bidding, you may be the one placing the 2400 bid and losing out to the bid at 2600.  That is, someone bids 2200.  Your proxy bid outbids him at 2400. He bids 2600. Now your 2600 proxy bid is invalidated because someone is already at that level.  

this has happened to me. I understand it now. However it seems that's a fault in the system-- in your example, the other bidder's bid of 2600 should also have been outbid on behalf of my 2600, and he should have been prompted to go to 2800 (not forcing ME instead to go to 2800)?

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59 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

By virtue of the bidding going back and forth, your bid might have been the 2400 bid, and you would have lost to the 2600 bid that followed.  Many people don't realize that this is what the bid protection function is for - you might be willing to go to 2600, but, depending on the order of bidding, you may be the one placing the 2400 bid and losing out to the bid at 2600.  That is, someone bids 2200.  Your proxy bid outbids him at 2400. He bids 2600. Now your 2600 proxy bid is invalidated because someone is already at that level.  

nIce explanation!

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1 hour ago, zhamlau said:

I’m just happy it sold well, that was my worlds finest Page I was selling. 

Glad it was a good result for you! If live bidding didn’t say I was winning, I would have hit another bid. Que sera.

Edited by AnkurJ
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3 minutes ago, AnkurJ said:

Glad it was a good result for you! If live bidding didn’t say I was winning, I would have hit another bid. Que sera.

Yeah i has 8 lots in the auction. They averaged out at the middle of what I hoped. Not great but squarely in the “hey alright that’s decent” range.

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4 hours ago, delekkerste said:

I think some of you are taking the argument way too literally.  No one said that people are only buying keys and that everything else is going down.  Of course, most books sold are not keys or classic covers.  It's like the stock market this year (at least before Facebook blew up) - more than 100% of the gains in the market could be attributable to just five stocks, and, over the past few years, there's been a cohort of maybe a couple dozen stocks that have hugely outpaced the market (the "keys" as it were) and accounted for most of the market's gains.  Doesn't mean that the rest of the market is going down.  Doesn't mean that most of the trading doesn't occur in the thousands of other (non-key) stocks or that some of those stocks aren't doing well too.  It just means that the participation and price performance is favoring those key stocks above all else.

Same with the comic market.  Of course most of the transaction volume is in non-key books, and many of those books are on the rise.  But, let's face it - there's been a marked shift to keys in recent years and away from run collecting, which featured much more predominantly in the 2000s and early 2010s in the CGC era (remember the titanic Brulato-Schmell wars which would send top census Marvel non-keys to absurd levels?)  Also note:  the market is not just key collectors and run collectors; someone who buys an Action #87 might not be trying to complete any kind of run, even if the book is not a key.  Same with the Berk collection - people are probably not trying to complete runs of those titles; they just wanted nice copies of books that are hard to find.

Similarly, by definition, most of the OA that trades hands is not A-quality.  But, we're definitely seeing the A/B spread blowing out beyond historic norms, a trend which looks to continue barring a major setback in the market. 2c   

Still trying to drum up some conversation on A, B and Cs - Which pieces that under-performed were Bs versus Cs?  Again, I assume we have not just A and everything else but A, B, C, D and F....y'know like how college used to be before all the private school grade inflation :)

 

Edited by mtlevy1
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On 7/31/2018 at 12:56 PM, PhilipB2k17 said:

You know? This Garfield OA might actually be a nice cheap pickup. Can't imagine it exceeding $150-$200. Or am I way off? Not my area.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-davis-garfield-daily-comic-strip-original-art-dated-4-10-89-united-feature-syndicate-1989-/a/7189-93379.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

The Garfield Jim Davis stuff reminds of Thomas Kincaide The Painter of Light stuff. A lot of it around and not rare.

Like both artists,but kind of like Stan Lee Sigs.

Abundance.

Edited by ComicConnoisseur
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3 hours ago, zhamlau said:

Yeah i has 8 lots in the auction. They averaged out at the middle of what I hoped. Not great but squarely in the “hey alright that’s decent” range.

Hmm, do you think that you could have done as well, if not better, by selling the pages on your own?  Only asking because there’s 20% commission + taxes added onto the sale price so clearly folks are willing to pay more, but I guess another aspect to this question is whether it would be worth your time to do so?

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6 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Hmm, do you think that you could have done as well, if not better, by selling the pages on your own?  Only asking because there’s 20% commission + taxes added onto the sale price so clearly folks are willing to pay more, but I guess another aspect to this question is whether it would be worth your time to do so?

No not really. Honestly I have stuff up for sale all the time and it seems people are a little gun shy about buying direct. When you average out the highs and lows of the auction, I find generally do pretty well. People will pay more from an auction house then they will from me directly. I’ve asked less directly for many pieces I sold tonight and yesterday. People just seem to be afraid of overpaying on direct sales. But put it in an auction with a time limit and no room to hem and haw, the prices get realized. 

 

I make a point to be at or below market on everything I sell, no ripoffs with me. I do that by not overpaying when I acquire. But unless they can be sure of value by bidding against other buyers in an open competition many buyers don’t want to engage in direct. Like some sorta “FOMA” for sales/deals. 

I sell a lot direct, don’t get me wrong. But if I can’t make something happen on a sale piece I want to sell within in a year I put it to auction. A lot of people say they will do that “buy from me now or it’s gonna be locked away or traded away forever!”...but I actually do that not just threaten it. 

Anyway sorry to sidetrack discussion, long answer I know .

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Panelfan1 said:
14 hours ago, AnkurJ said:

This has me confused. I thought I won this :(

AC7ECD0C-59AA-4AB9-8B4C-FDF18D903FC3.jpeg

Incidentally this page sold at comiclink very recently for about half the price.

It was a good price when it was selling so I pulled the trigger. Had no interest in WF but it was clealy special and not going for what I felt it was worth being as beautiful and memorable a scene, so I bought it. I don’t think of it as attempted flip cause I didn’t try and ring someone up unfairly. It was being undervalued in auction (which happens all the time at all the auction firms if you look) so I acquired. I put a price I thought was fair on it and tried to sell. No one bought it direct so I put back into no reserve auction and bet on myself and my valuation. I think it went for a fair and repeatable price actually. 

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I managed just one lot this time around, and that's the Hanna-Barbera London Bridge painted background cel. The price was alright and my wife will be in love with it - I just have to find a framer with some experience in animation cels, because I have none. Luckily, we have quite a few shops around here. 

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1 hour ago, Bronty said:

If that’s not an attempted flip I don’t know what is.   So what?   Congrats.

Then I don’t think either you know or we agree on definition. :)

It was mentioned earlier in the other thread why it’s different too. The “attempted flip” is buying it in auction and instantly putting out for more artificially. I bought an asset being undervalued and put it back into a 1 dollar opening bid no reserve market. I attempted nothing, I forced no one to pay an outlandish upgraded price. Wouldn't qualify imo for that thread.

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2 hours ago, zhamlau said:

Then I don’t think either you know or we agree on definition. :)

It was mentioned earlier in the other thread why it’s different too. The “attempted flip” is buying it in auction and instantly putting out for more artificially. I bought an asset being undervalued and put it back into a 1 dollar opening bid no reserve market. I attempted nothing, I forced no one to pay an outlandish upgraded price. Wouldn't qualify imo for that thread.

So since I am the one who brought up the doubling from clink - wanted to clarify - I mentioned it not as a criticism.  Only as a fact about price that I found interesting (as a matter of following trends).  It's a page I personally liked and followed - and I thought it was interesting to see how the price on it went up over a short time.  

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