• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

HA Summer Signature Auction Aug 2-4
2 2

Started by jjonahjameson11,

233 posts in this topic

PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, drewincanada said:

A quarter million (with juice) for the Iron Man and Sub-Marinter #1 cover. Yowza.

That's gotta be a record (by a long shot) for a Colan cover.

I wonder if here will be a halo effect on other Colan art? I’m guessing his Submariner & Iron Man stuff, in particular? 

Edited by PhilipB2k17
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mtlevy1

mtlevy1

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I wonder if here will be a halo effect on other Colan art? I’m guessing his Submariner & Iron Man stuff, in particular? 

 

That was a showcase piece but did anyone else note this panel page: Gene Colan and Wally Wood Captain America #127 Story Page 17 --> $21.6K, wow!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, mtlevy1 said:

 

That was a showcase piece but did anyone else note this panel page: Gene Colan and Wally Wood Captain America #127 Story Page 17 --> $21.6K, wow!

Yeah. But there’s still a halo on Trimpe Hulk art after the Wolverine debut panel sale. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mercurious

Mercurious

Posted
Posted

I hemmed and hawwed and ended up lowering my bid on the Team America cover and underbid it with my cut.  Awesome piece, I think it kind of got chopped off at the knees with Kirby and Romita Cap covers coming beforehand.  May have removed a strong bidder from the equation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
NinjaSealed

NinjaSealed

Posted
Posted

Under bidder on the item I wanted the most and blown away on the other item I wanted. An early item I was interested in I wasn’t online to bid on went way lower than I would have paid. I assumed it was going to sell for a lot more so all in all a bad auction day for me.

Mignola Batman cover was weird. I thought the reserve was way low, and it was considering it sold for about double. I wonder if the reserve price hurt bidding by damaging perceived value?

KJ page went exactly what I thought it would go for. I wonder if we will see soon another come to market after this sale.

IMSM cover had a wow price, but it was a wow piece. 

I agree with the sentiment the prices were either strong or weak with the top tier stuff flying high and the slightly lesser stuff lagging.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sideshow Bob

Sideshow Bob

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

Under bidder on the item I wanted the most and blown away on the other item I wanted. An early item I was interested in I wasn’t online to bid on went way lower than I would have paid. I assumed it was going to sell for a lot more so all in all a bad auction day for me.

Mignola Batman cover was weird. I thought the reserve was way low, and it was considering it sold for about double. I wonder if the reserve price hurt bidding by damaging perceived value?

KJ page went exactly what I thought it would go for. I wonder if we will see soon another come to market after this sale.

IMSM cover had a wow price, but it was a wow piece. 

I agree with the sentiment the prices were either strong or weak with the top tier stuff flying high and the slightly lesser stuff lagging.

 

I've bought two Winsor McCay "Dream of the Rarebit Fiend" pieces in the last couple years (July 2015 and May 2017). So I was a bit surprised by the HA price today ($27,600 w BP), given each panel was cut and separately pasted onto a board. It was a typically surreal Rarebit and maybe the gag was more accessible than my two examples, but it went for almost double what I paid in '17 and triple what I paid in '15. Yikes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dick O.

Dick O.

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NinjaSealed said:

I agree with the sentiment the prices were either strong or weak with the top tier stuff flying high and the slightly lesser stuff lagging.

These impressed with their strong prices:

  • Pacheco - X-Men #62 variant cover: $7.2k
  • Perez - COIE #12 page 18: $7.8k
  • Silvestri - UXM #239 page 4: $3.4k
  • PMS - Doctor Strange #56 page 16: $7.8k
  • Starlin - Captain Marvel #30 page 17: $19.2k
  • Starlin - Death of Captain Marvel page 6: $21.6k

Very few steals amongst what I was tracking (shrug)

 

Edited by Dick O.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, malvin said:

Yes, except as someone else  said, there are 4 "big deals" when it comes to Maguire JLA.  The test cover, the #1 cover, the poster art, and the punch page.  I'm  extrapolating that test cover finish to my poster art :)

 

Malvin

LOL, I thought there were only 3 big deals when it came to Maguire JL...the #1 cover, the test cover and the punch page. :insane: 

Even though I genuinely have zero recollection of the poster image, I looked at it in your CAF and think that it would draw out some crazies, so, I think you're safe, man. :foryou: 

15 hours ago, comix4fun said:

But did you read the description? It wasn't clear if that piece was every used or published for any reason. I don't know the market for Go Nagai either, but I'd expect to be certain of the piece's publication use at the very least before pulling the trigger on what could wind up being a very nice commission piece. 

I'm pretty sure that it wasn't published, but, from my limited understanding of OA from this genre (including what I've been told from a collector friend of mine who pursues this type of art), it doesn't matter anywhere near the extent that it would with American comic art given the lack of other alternatives.  As long as it's period-correct, well-executed (and this one surely must be better artistically than any of the published material anyway), and has solid provenance, it works.  I mean, I would love to own a Kojima LW&C drawing, but, AFAIK, there are no pages available and it's just a number of unpublished drawings out there.  Which is why I was excited when one came to market at the SDCC this year (decided that it wasn't for me, though, and it's at CLink now).  

14 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

$60K for the BWS Conan #5 is insane. While I agree with most Barry is a great artist now, the art on his Conan art was very weak. This  His anatomy is terrible sometimes including this cover, it's one of the worse from the run. Conan looks like Stretch Armstrong. The Conan #171 by John Buscema which hammered at $16K is far superior. Oh well to each his own.

As a friend/Boardie mentioned to me recently, BWS art has largely been on a cold streak in recent years.  Granted, there was a Conan #8 page that did very well in this auction, and some of the '80s Marvel stuff has done respectably, but, those have largely been exceptions.  A lot of The Studio/Gorblimey Press era stuff has struggled to find buyers privately (and consummated sales have been disappointing from what I've heard), and a number of the auction results have been soft.  The last two BWS Conan covers have done poorly at auction (including this one - I hear what you are saying about the quality of this cover, but, given the limited supply and BWS's reputation, $60K is, at best, the low end of where any cover from the series should be trading IMO).  Panel pages have largely stagnated in recent years.  I've even seen (gasp) PRICE REDUCTIONS on certain BWS Conan pages offered through dealers. :whatthe: 

As for why that is, there are probably a number of reasons.  The exponential increase in superhero art's popularity vis-a-vis licensed properties and genre (e.g., fantasy) art.  BWS being largely out of the limelight (lack of convention appearances, lack of a consistent record of producing work over the past 25 years, etc.)  Large quantities of his art hitting the auction block in the past 3 years, both directly from BWS himself and from whoever consigned the art in the 2016 Profiles sale (I believe much of it used to be owned by the late, legendary collector Henry Huie, but, I don't remember if it was his estate or a subsequent owner who auctioned off those pieces).     

Anyway, the bottom line is that much of BWS's catalog has been probably been flat or even down in recent years, even as the overall OA market has taken another leg up since 2015 after consolidating for a bit in 2013 and 2014.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, First Upgrade said:

I consigned this piece, which I believed to be exactly in the classification which Gene describes, and feel that the auction result supports this...$6k ($7.2k w/BP)...

Wow, that does seem to be on the low side for what is not a bad page at all.  I saw a twice-up Kirby TOS page at SDCC that was also pretty good fail to find a buyer at $13,750.  

14 hours ago, malvin said:

I think there has been a general spread between A and B materials beyond historical average. A is going up way faster than B (and let's not even talk about C and D).  Sort of a flight to quality.

+1000.  I feel like the spread between A and B has blown out in recent years.  But, it's a trend that I can see continuing.  I feel that, the farther out we go (time-wise), the harder it's going to be to sell B-material from A-runs.  Not that the A-material is invulnerable to a downturn by any stretch (certainly not at some of the prices we're seeing), but, liquidity-wise, it's ALREADY TOUGH to sell B-material and I feel it will only get tougher going forward, whereas whatever liquidity that remains in the market will gravitate towards the A-material IMO.  And, if my friend Nate is right and we do ever get major foreign BSD and/or institutional involvement in this hobby (mind you, I am extremely skeptical), not having grown up with this material, they are only going to gravitate towards the most recognizable of the A-material.  

It's not too dissimilar to what we're seeing on the comics side of the hobby - keys and classic covers are everything nowadays.  Few people care about putting together runs anymore for a number of reasons - runs are not Instagram-friendly, runs take up more space, runs take up more time to assemble, non-key books are less liquid, buying non-keys takes money away from keys which have gotten more expensive, etc.  Nowadays, I won't buy any B-material (or, such as the market perceives to be) unless (1) I just have a super personal nostalgic connection to it and/or (2) I have an appreciation for it that the checklist-wielding Philistines in this market overlook <raises nose in the air and sniffs>. 

Whenever a B or C-level Miller Daredevil cover becomes available, friends are always asking me if I'm going to go after it.  The answer is always no.  Do you have any idea how hard it is to get rid of expensive B-material?  Do you think this stuff just magically shows up at auction without being shopped to death first?  I said last year that I'd rather have that Kubert UXM #266 cover than that third-rate Kirby FF cover with Psycho-Man dominating it that was in the same auction.  Somebody will probably always want the first Gambit appearance and best, most recognizable Kubert cover that he ever did.  I think it's going to be tougher and tougher to sell second, third and fourth quartile examples even from gold standard runs like Kirby FF (and Miller DD) the farther out in time you go.  Why do you think certain covers that also fit in that category have sat on dealer walls for literally more than a decade?  Will they get easier to sell over time?  I doubt it. 

14 hours ago, robert frey said:

i consigned a bws avengers page and the zeck cap team america cover. both DOA. i am very surprised and disappointed.

I don't know the Avengers market very well (only what I absorb through osmosis from you and Daren!)  How much should that BWS page have gone for?  $14.9K seems pretty healthy to this outsider. 

  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, NinjaSealed said:

Under bidder on the item I wanted the most and blown away on the other item I wanted. An early item I was interested in I wasn’t online to bid on went way lower than I would have paid. I assumed it was going to sell for a lot more so all in all a bad auction day for me.

Mignola Batman cover was weird. I thought the reserve was way low, and it was considering it sold for about double. I wonder if the reserve price hurt bidding by damaging perceived value?

KJ page went exactly what I thought it would go for. I wonder if we will see soon another come to market after this sale.

IMSM cover had a wow price, but it was a wow piece. 

I agree with the sentiment the prices were either strong or weak with the top tier stuff flying high and the slightly lesser stuff lagging.

 

Reserve was low, but, I don't think it unduly anchored the price on Bats #426.  I mean, FFS, $33.6K for constipated Batman. #428 is the cover that everyone remembers and would want more than this one, IMO.  

KJ page went for exactly what I thought it would too.  I don't think it merits that price, but, I just had a feeling that $100K (hammer) was the magic number.

IMSM was right in the range that I thought it would be (my uber-collector friend Nate can confirm that prediction).  I don't think it was necessarily a wow price; some people I know expected higher.  I'm not sure if the consignor even made money on it. 

11 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I thought the Team America cover would do better. 

I thought $10-12K...with all due respect, it's a cool cover, but far from a great one.  Unless you're a big Team America fan, this is probably not the Zeck Cap cover you want. 2c 

11 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Yeah. But there’s still a halo on Trimpe Hulk art after the Wolverine debut panel sale. 

I'm skeptical that much of the rise in Trimpe Hulk prices post-2014 has been a result of a halo effect on the Wolvie page sale.  I mean, how much is the halo effect, how much is the Hulk continuing to grow in importance in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, how much is it the overall increase in OA prices (especially first-tier superheroes), etc.?  Even if the Hulk #180 page sale did provide a catalyst for a reevaluation (and I'm skeptical of even making that much of a claim), I think all the pieces were in place elsewhere for prices to ratchet higher anyway given all the other trends that have happened in the marketplace. 

9 hours ago, tth2 said:

Did people find this price surprising?  Iconic Thanos image, but the fading markers.

Color me surprised.  I would have thought the markers would have warranted a big discount on this one.  $21K+ is in the range of where I thought the page would have ended if it had been pen & ink ("high teens to mid-$20Ks" is what I thought it would be in that case).  

Edited by delekkerste
Link to comment
Share on other sites
delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted (edited)

Finally, back to my earlier post about BWS art and fantasy/genre art fading in popularity relative to superhero art, look at the Wally Wood Weird Science #22 cover which only got one bid at the reserve price of $75K ($90K with the juice).  That price probably hasn't moved much over the past few years (I actually inquired about its availability a couple of years ago) even as the market has taken another leg higher for higher-end pieces.  I see in the HA archives that it last sold for $32.2K in early 2003, which works out to be about a 6.9% annualized gain during the ~15.5 year holding period.  Assuming a hammer + 5% BP rebate arrangement to the consignor (that's just a guess), that knocks the rate of return down to 5.9% annualized.  If the seller paid sales tax, the return would be even lower.  And, of course, this is all pre-capital gains tax. 

Now, I'm not scoffing at a ~6% annualized return plus the enjoyment of owning this beauty for many years.  But, from a purely numbers basis, it will have far, far, far underperformed A-quality superhero art from this timeframe (heck, even a lot of B and some C-quality superhero art).  I have some friends, among the most respected collectors in the hobby, who believe that aesthetics and artistic quality will win out in the end when it comes to the value of OA in the marketplace.  But, so far, aesthetics are clearly losing, with returns on artists like Wood, Wrightson and BWS definitely lagging even second-rate talents (sometimes even third-rate talents) who happened to work on popular characters/runs.  :sorry:  

Edited by delekkerste
Link to comment
Share on other sites
PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Finally, back to my earlier post about BWS art and fantasy/genre art fading in popularity relative to superhero art, look at the Wally Wood Weird Science #22 cover which only got one bid at the reserve price of $75K ($90K with the juice).  That price probably hasn't moved much over the past few years (I actually inquired about its availability a couple of years ago) even as the market has taken another leg higher for higher-end pieces.  I see in the HA archives that it last sold for $32.2K in early 2003, which works out to be about a 6.9% annualized gain during the ~15.5 year holding period.  Assuming a hammer + 5% BP rebate arrangement to the consignor (that's just a guess), that knocks the rate of return down to 5.9% annualized.  If the seller paid sales tax, the return would be even lower.  And, of course, this is all pre-capital gains tax. 

Now, I'm not scoffing at a ~6% annualized return plus the enjoyment of owning this beauty for many years.  But, from a purely numbers basis, it will have far, far, far underperformed A-quality superhero art from this timeframe (heck, even a lot of B and some C-quality superhero art).  I have some friends, among the most respected collectors in the hobby, who believe that aesthetics and artistic quality will win out in the end when it comes to the value of OA in the marketplace.  But, so far, aesthetics are clearly losing, with returns on artists like Wood, Wrightson and BWS definitely lagging even second-rate talents (sometimes even third-rate talents) who happened to work on popular characters/runs.  :sorry:  

I think the parallel to look at is comic strip art. There are a dozen classic strips that still retain value and are appreciating, such as Peanuts, Raymond Flash Gordon, Krazy Kat, Little Nemo, etc. 

But former superstar strips like Pogo are fading. 

Other than the classics I listed above, the strips that are appreciating are the more recent ones such as Calvin & Hobbes. Based primarily on the fact that the fans of those strips are reaching peak earning age. Now, C&H May achieve classic status like Peanuts, etc  but it’s too soon to tell, IMHO  

Comic art is probably going to go the sane route. Some classic stuff will hold on and appreciate, but a lot of stuff that we may think is top notch right now may not hold onto its value in the long run. 

I think something like Preacher Art would be a good example. It’s hot right now, but will it hold on to this level in 10-15 years when the biggest Preacher nostalgia collectors liquidate their collections and the TV show has been off the air for years? 

Walk Kelly’s Pogo was considered the pinnacle of comic strip art at one point. A true classic. Now, you can by 3 Pogo strips for the price of one Garfield. 

Edited by PhilipB2k17
Link to comment
Share on other sites
PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, delekkerste said:

 It's not too dissimilar to what we're seeing on the comics side of the hobby - keys and classic covers are everything nowadays.  Few people care about putting together runs anymore for a number of reasons - runs are not Instagram-friendly, runs take up more space, runs take up more time to assemble, non-key books are less liquid, buying non-keys takes money away from keys which have gotten more expensive....

I go to a lot of conventions and have dealer friends that ai talk about this stuff with frequently. And, they are seeing both a crazy run up in “Keys” but also an uptick in people buying back issues and runs. 

Mom not certain whether older collectors are being lured back into the market, but I see a lot of kids and younger parents buying back issues as going through long boxes. 

There is an innate kid appeal to holding a floppy comic in your hands; or reading it on your bedroom floor or under your sheet with a flashlight. Even kids who grea up on iPads like comics. 

I have even seen some comic stores who used to only carry new stuff (and maybe a year or two of back inventory) start to buy up older collections so they can put out classic inventory. 

The massive pop culture upsurge for comic TV shows, video games and films is starting to have an effect. A lot of people are interested in the history of these characters and where the stories came from. Abd while thy like reading a trade volume, they see all those classic issues hanging on a wall or in a glass case and get intrigued by the real deal. 

Abd have you been to a Free Comic Book day event at a local comic store lately? I live in the Midwest, and not a major population hub  and they are packed, with long lines out the door. That has changed over the past 3-4 years too.

Face it. Comic books are freaking cool! 

Edited by PhilipB2k17
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
2 2
Go to topic listing