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B level art
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92 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

If it's not Wolvy: C Artist, B book, C-D page. 

Totally disagree on C-D level page. 

A "D" level page would have Bruce Banner on it, no Hulk. 

A "C" level page would have the Hulk on it picking flowers in a field or standing around.

A "B" level page has the Hulk fighting, in this case, Wendigo.

An "A" level page has the Hulk fighting, in this case, Wendigo... along with the 1st printed appearance of Wolverine!

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a

2 hours ago, Timely said:

Totally disagree on C-D level page. 

A "D" level page would have Bruce Banner on it, no Hulk. 

A "C" level page would have the Hulk on it picking flowers in a field or standing around.

A "B" level page has the Hulk fighting, in this case, Wendigo.

An "A" level page has the Hulk fighting, in this case, Wendigo... along with the 1st printed appearance of Wolverine!

I personally think that the definition of A that most people on this thread gravitate towards is way too restrictive.  Based on the above, there would be only one A page in the whole history of the Hulk book, as no page can come even close to the first Wolverine appearance!  On the other had, a page with four high quality panels of Hulk battling Wendigo would be an A page in my book.  Having said that, I agree that it is not that easy to find true A pages.  I looked at my collection (around 80 pieces amassed in 20 years + of collecting) and I could count A pages on one single hand (and only a couple by the stricter definition)

Personally - and I am throwing this out there just for fun and with no intention of offending anyone, the 1st appearance of Wolvie would be:

B C A* (* Wolverine first appearance)

Personally, I rank Trimpe second tier vis à vis Kirby etc, and on par with Sal Buscema (and I am a BIIIIIG Sal Buscema fan).

Finally, the particular run where the page appeared is not really well known other than….that one panel and the fact that it was Wolverine's first appearance.

So, here is my personal (three times underline personal, based purely on personal tastes and no pretense to be writing a book on comic art) list of A Marvel artists (and please note that I  am probably most taken by artists not listed among them and, conversely, I would not collect some of the names listed...)

Silver Age

A* Kirby and Ditko (they belong to their own category)

A JRomita, JBuscema, NAdams, JSteranko, GKane, WWood, GColan

Bronze Age

A JByrne, GPerez, JStarlin, BWindsor Smith

Copper Age

A Jim Lee, TMcFarlane, WSimonson

 

And here is my attempt to identify some A runs at Marvel (remember, first appearances or "Face it Tiger" pages are A*):

Silver Age

ASM - Death of Gwen

ASM - Some of the best ASM vs Goblin

ASM drug issue

ASM - best Ditko issues

FF Coming of Galactus

FF Doom and Silver Surfer

FF Let there be Life

Avengers Kree-Skrull war

Bronze Age

XM GS and 94

UXM Dark Phoenix saga

UXM Days of future past

DD Frank Miller run (is this still bronze age)?

Jim Starlin's Cap Marvel / Warlock with Thanos

Avengers Korvac saga (borderline….)

 

Of course there are some single issues that would qualify as A even if they don't belong to a historic run.  "This Man this Monster" comes to mind, for example.

Carlo M. 

 

 

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I use a similar, albeit more complex, approach to evaluating original comic book art pages as our HOST has employed for evaluating the physical condition of a comic book...

I understand and accept that not every 8.0 is 'created equal'...for example, one 8.0 may have specific 'defects' which another 8.0 does not. Nevertheless, both examples woupd grade 8.0...

Nor, is every B level piece of original comic book art simply B level as a result of the exact same determing factors (defects/detractors), which I choose to define on a case by case basis...

For me, there are perhaps too many specific characteristics, unique to an original comic book art piece which influence where the page 'grades'....quickly teasing apart those differences in characteristics such as general content, artist, artistic skill, aesthetic, composition, era, publisher, current market supply and demand, litigation or arbitration with the Estate, or even 'guesstimation of bidder valuation' (just to list a few) is a 'spooky' task...was or is the bidder a 'collector' or dealer, etc., can further complicate the analysis...

It would be 'nice' to reach a 10-point grading scale where I could state with 'certainty', whether a piece is a 9.9, 9.8, 9.6, 9.4, 9.2, or 9.0, in regard to A-Level examples...and for all subsequent grade levels...

For now, I am content with grading B level original comic book art pieces as being either B-, B-/B, B, B/B+, or B+

I described this piece, which I just moved, as being B-/B...(nevermind 'why')...

And, at some point, you'll just 'know it's level 'when you see it'...

lf (2).jpg

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I would say that most of Trimpe run on Hulk makes him a B-/B artist on that run and in a few other issues he did during those prime years.  But after that I view him as a C artist with some D artist mini-runs (remember when he tried to ape Liefeld?).

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I only have one piece I would consider an “A” I think each piece has to be judged on its own merits which makes it hard to come up with anything other than high level operating principles to provide guidance.

1. its by Charles Schultz (premier artist)

2. Early period which I would say was his prime period

3. Published (I maintain published increase the desirability)

4. Has three of the main characters (more is better than less in general)

5. Has a timeless exchange between the characters (content matters a lot)

 

 

3D4BFEA0-90F9-4205-BDC2-E3B23A2EF83B.jpeg

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On 8/14/2018 at 3:49 PM, Carlo M said:

Bronze Age

A JByrne, GPerez, JStarlin, BWindsor Smith

Copper Age

A Jim Lee, TMcFarlane, WSimonson

I liked your lists.  If your cut off was 1990 I would have only added Miller, Miller/Janson, Miller/Mazzuchelli, and Marvel early Star Wars to your A runs.

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11 hours ago, Peter L said:

I liked your lists.  If your cut off was 1990 I would have only added Miller, Miller/Janson, Miller/Mazzuchelli, and Marvel early Star Wars to your A runs.

Miller...right of course, what was I thinking!

 

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This  seemed like a whole lot of talk about an issue that clearly cannot be rationally determined. A and B level art are basically the comic art equivalent of the old saw about Pornography "You know it when you see it" and even more so, because even when you do see it, you may have a completely different opinion than the next guy. I think there are some indisputable A level pieces out there, but even that is at least debatable, as the Trimpe Wolverine Splash made abundantly clear to anyone who was watching the reaction to that sale. I have to just go with "I know what I like and if not many others do, then I guess that means I am lucky cause I will get it for less". I have a lot of things in my collection that are A level to me, but I suppose my heirs will discover if I was just fooling myself and that is ok as I don't see it as a major part of my estate planning anyway.

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