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Dealers / Rinse and Repeat model
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283 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, STORMSHADOW_80 said:

Collectors are sad. We start getting disenchanted about conventions (maybe even the hobby as a whole). We stop going to as many conventions and buy less books.

Dealers are sad that they

1).  Have to guess what pricing model the customer standing in front of them is using

2).  Having the exact book in the exact grade for the exact price for the customer who may or may not show up at a show

3).  Wondering if you are coming to this particular show or are you going to be "that guy" who found something else to do that weekend.  Then post that you'll see us next year.

4).  Hitting you with a great number and then having you tell us that you have to think about it.

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6 hours ago, october said:

I guess that's kind of the point. Only a small fraction of the available books trade hands, but a decent percentage of the obvious deals do. 

I'll use the last WWC I attended as an example. There were at least 15-20 guys there during setup who know most/all facets of the market well. In general (not always) they snag all of the underpriced material if they are the first person through a box. Sometimes they miss things, oftentimes they do not. The dealers who set up infrequently, but still manage to get good material, are hit hard at setup. Being the first person through the right box with the right dealer can make a show. Sure, rewards often go to the guys who dig and box dive and hunt. There is money there too. But the scarce golden age book priced at 10% of FMV? That's going to the first guy to see it. The public isn't going to get those shots often.

The times I set up at WWC or C2E2 I sold huge quantities of material that the general public never got to see. Oftentimes it was half of my booth...and this was before the first attendee stepped through the doors. 

Good post Andy ! (thumbsu A very honest appraisal of the realities of buying at a con. None of this is new, none of this is necessarily bad. It's just a fact. 

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don't some sellers do some random seeding in the boxes to get buyers to search through them? would that process be defeated by allowing other dealers to browse first? or are we talking about higher dollar books that basically end up on the walls to begin with?

As for the guy who is holding back his books until the doors open-- perhaps you are not pricing your books to meet market demand (you are pricing your books well below market).

I don't have a horse in this game - but if the point is to sell your items I don't see who is buying them as the issue. Someone posted that occasionally and entire booth of comics is bought before the doors open. What does that guy do next? Does he have more inventory to bring in available or does he just leave? Maybe they open a lemonade stand.

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I've realized this kind of discussion can make anyone look bitter :shy:

but there is no way to shine shinolah, I think they did try on mythbusters at one point.... js no one comes out smelling perfect. 

Edited by ADAMANTIUM
Discussion is a better word
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10 hours ago, 01TheDude said:

don't some sellers do some random seeding in the boxes to get buyers to search through them? would that process be defeated by allowing other dealers to browse first? or are we talking about higher dollar books that basically end up on the walls to begin with?

As for the guy who is holding back his books until the doors open-- perhaps you are not pricing your books to meet market demand (you are pricing your books well below market).

I don't have a horse in this game - but if the point is to sell your items I don't see who is buying them as the issue. Someone posted that occasionally and entire booth of comics is bought before the doors open. What does that guy do next? Does he have more inventory to bring in available or does he just leave? Maybe they open a lemonade stand.

I’ve only seen it happen twice but both times the dealer was packing up his books and I didn’t see them again so I assume they just left with a bunch of cash.

Dealers usually do not have enough time or desire to look thru long boxes unless it’s a new collection or a unpicked set of books.  With so many Wall books to look over and make offers on at the average sized Con the boxes usually get left to the collectors or the small time sellers like me.

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Can I put out there that the only time I have to look at other dealers books is before the show opens.  

I VERY rarely get to walk around and look at other dealers inventory while a show is going on.  Why you ask?  Because I'm supposed to be back at my booth trying to sell my books,  making sure books are not being stolen,  answering questions etc.  If you think that at the end of the show I'm looking at other dealers books you are sadly mistaken.  I'm tired, hungry and want to go home.  So do a lot of other dealers.  And since a lot of other dealers very rarely come in early to setup that puts even more pressure on my time when I do get to look at something.

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On 8/13/2018 at 10:23 AM, RCheli said:

Well, I am by no means a big-time dealer, but I'll tell you this. The money is not in the big books, at least as far as profit margin is concerned. For a book you have at $1000 on your wall, you may have paid $800 and will take $900. So while $100 is great and all, you make 12% on that book. (There are exceptions, of course.)

The stuff in the boxes, however, is your cash cow. Those books that cost anywhere from $1 to $30 (or whatever) may have cost you a fraction of that. So those $1 and $3 books are all profit. And if you leave a show selling a long-box or two per table of that stuff, you're doing pretty well.

And that $1000 book you sold for $900? Well, the next dealer will probably have $1050 on it and happily sell it for $975 (or see that his price point is too high and end up selling it for $900 or $850). 

Buy for a nickel. Sell for $5. Repeat 10,000 times.

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On 8/13/2018 at 12:34 PM, october said:

Making 20x or 30x on something you paid a dollar for is nice, but I'd still rather buy a book for $900 and sell for $1000. 

I don't fill my wallet with percentage points. $100>$30.

Absolutely, but I prefer a no risk profit with zero carrying costs.

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 Here is my input.

1. Are you a collector, dealer, or flipper?

  If you are a collector you buy books you enjoy, for a price that you find reasonable, and enjoy your book. One day you will sell, it may be to a dealer, maybe a fellow collector, and maybe a flipper.

 If you are a dealer, you buy from old collectors/customers/other dealers. You pay more to set up at conventions, you spend time advertising, you keep a track of what the market is doing and adjust accordingly, and many do this full time. When they buy at setup, most already paid AT LEAST 1K to be there, if you want the same advantage, buy a booth/table/spot and be there at the same time. It MAY be worth your 1K or more... it may not.

 If you are a flipper, then you are looking to buy low (I mean low) and turn every book for 25-200% profit. These are the guys that flood craigslist, and the other online sites (facebook, instagram, etc). These guys are usually not as honest (IMO), and use lines like "it's for my collection", or try and tell you your grading is off or asking price is unreasonable. There are a ton of guys I know that flip and are completely honest, and then there are some real shady people on the sites mentioned. That is why many consider flippers to be terrible people, I have been a collector, flipper, and dealer. But I have not tried to rip anybody off (and as far as I know, nobody has felt that I did), and have built some great relationships along the way by being an honest person to deal with.

 

 The whole idea of the market is crashing, end users, can't sustain is BS. Facts are facts, comics are currently being enjoyed by the second group of collectors coming into money for the first time, people from 25-45 are enjoying some disposable income and have the chance to buy the books they wanted in their younger years. And that's just one example as you have others who are investing, others collecting artwork, etc. The comics medium is extremely healthy and has experienced the same  we have seen with every generation before.

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1 minute ago, Ryan. said:

Many people are all 3.

 If you are a dealer, you are a re-seller of goods.

If you are a collector, that's fine but are you selling your collection? You are now a flipper.

If you are a flipper who collects, than you may just flip books to buy more for your collection.

So to your point, yes. There are a lot of collector/flippers out there.

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57 minutes ago, The Resurrection said:

 Here is my input.

1. Are you a collector, dealer, or flipper?

  If you are a collector you buy books you enjoy, for a price that you find reasonable, and enjoy your book. One day you will sell, it may be to a dealer, maybe a fellow collector, and maybe a flipper.

 If you are a dealer, you buy from old collectors/customers/other dealers. You pay more to set up at conventions, you spend time advertising, you keep a track of what the market is doing and adjust accordingly, and many do this full time. When they buy at setup, most already paid AT LEAST 1K to be there, if you want the same advantage, buy a booth/table/spot and be there at the same time. It MAY be worth your 1K or more... it may not.

 If you are a flipper, then you are looking to buy low (I mean low) and turn every book for 25-200% profit. These are the guys that flood craigslist, and the other online sites (facebook, instagram, etc). These guys are usually not as honest (IMO), and use lines like "it's for my collection", or try and tell you your grading is off or asking price is unreasonable. There are a ton of guys I know that flip and are completely honest, and then there are some real shady people on the sites mentioned. That is why many consider flippers to be terrible people, I have been a collector, flipper, and dealer. But I have not tried to rip anybody off (and as far as I know, nobody has felt that I did), and have built some great relationships along the way by being an honest person to deal with.

 

 The whole idea of the market is crashing, end users, can't sustain is BS. Facts are facts, comics are currently being enjoyed by the second group of collectors coming into money for the first time, people from 25-45 are enjoying some disposable income and have the chance to buy the books they wanted in their younger years. And that's just one example as you have others who are investing, others collecting artwork, etc. The comics medium is extremely healthy and has experienced the same  we have seen with every generation before.

THE GREAT CRASH OF 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 IS COMING!

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33 minutes ago, joeypost said:

What are people actually complaining about?

HaHA. Good question. I think I may have brought up the point that much of the higher end stuff has been picked over before the show starts. I wasn't complaining, or trying to be controversial, just stating a fact. Since then, I too am confused about what we are 'arguing' about. (shrug)

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