AZ News, "unrestored" Hulk#1 bought from LCS was actually restored, buyer angry 1 1

[jcjames]

 

From AZCentral: Hulk fan 'sees green' over vintage comic book

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"That Hulk was $5,500, 5,500 cash dollars," Masse said.

Masse says that's how much cash he plunked down to buy the very first comic book featuring Hulk, referred to as The Hulk #1.

He bought it last November as an investment from a Phoenix business called All About Books and Comics.

"I was told it was unrestored," he said.

Unrestored. That's important because Masse says when comic books are restored or cosmetically enhanced to look better, they're not just not worth as much.

So, believing the comic book was unrestored, Masse says he didn't have a problem handing over $5,500.

"There are lots of flaws that are already there, flaws that are acceptable because of wear and tear, the age of the comic, and a little bit of time that has affected it," Masse said.

However, when Masse got the comic book home, a friend noticed something that caught his eye.

"That's been touched up, a different color from the rest," the friend said.

After a closer look, Masse says he suspected the comic he had purchased had been touched up in areas, meaning its value would be a lot less than the $5,500 he paid.

Following his discovery, Masse says he complained to All About Books and Comics.

However, in emails to Masse, the business owners claimed they were unaware of any restoration on The Hulk #1 and added: "we are not restoration experts."

So, Masse had the book inspected and appraised by an expert who later wrote: "the book did have significant purple touch-ups."

After taking this information to the bookstore, Masse says they tried to compromise.

"They tried to offer me in-store credit on future purchases," he said.

However, Masse said no, and demanded a full refund.

He also contacted 3 On Your Side. The company refused to speak to us on-camera. Instead, they sent a statement saying, "We were sorry to hear he was disappointed because we had not intended to misrepresent the book."

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[MustEatBrains]

The store should have done a better check before consigning the book.  The store should refund 100%.  The losses that business will see as a result of this will be well in excess of $5500 and rightfully so.

[jcjames]

 

Shoulda went CGC

Or checked it very very closely.

 

 

[october]

Obviously not the buyer's fault, a seller needs to stand by their product, but maybe don't spend $5500 on a raw book if you don't know how to spot glaringly obvious color touch. CGC is in business for a reason. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by october

[telerites]

Any idea what grade was assigned to the book?

Also, I assume since it was raw, the buyer had a chance to inspect prior to purchase (it sounds like it was bought in-person at the store but maybe not)?

Just looking at GPA, a 1.5 SA restoration sold for $5,100 in March of this year.  The 50-70% less value seems a bit exaggerated.  

Edited August 13, 2018 by telerites

[Shadow Images]

2 hours ago, MustEatBrains said:

The store should have done a better check before consigning the book.  The store should refund 100%.  The losses that business will see as a result of this will be well in excess of $5500 and rightfully so.

It's the same store that crowd funded there last move. It has been around a long time and the owner has a fanboy club. They have always had some interesting business practices.

[Shadow Images]

1 minute ago, telerites said:

Any idea what grade was assigned to the book?

Also, I assume since it was raw, the buyer had a chance to inspect prior to purchase (it sounds like it was bought in-person at the store but maybe not)?

Guaranteed it was higher than most would have put it. I was looking at a early Batman issue they had awhile back. It was from Jerry Robinson's collection that had Benn CGC'd. It had been cracked out but left in the inner well with the grade cut off. If I remember right CGC had it graded 2.0 and the out a 3.5 grade on it.  The CGC # was still on the label they had just cut off the grade.

[NoMan]

4 minutes ago, Shadow Images said:

Guaranteed it was higher than most would have put it. I was looking at a early Batman issue they had awhile back. It was from Jerry Robinson's collection that had Benn CGC'd. It had been cracked out but left in the inner well with the grade cut off. If I remember right CGC had it graded 2.0 and the out a 3.5 grade on it.  The CGC # was still on the label they had just cut off the grade.

not sure i understand here. store broke opened the slab, kept CGC's printed grade label, kept book in inner well but assigned their own grade to it?

[mattn792]

38 minutes ago, Shadow Images said:

Guaranteed it was higher than most would have put it. I was looking at a early Batman issue they had awhile back. It was from Jerry Robinson's collection that had Benn CGC'd. It had been cracked out but left in the inner well with the grade cut off. If I remember right CGC had it graded 2.0 and the out a 3.5 grade on it.  The CGC # was still on the label they had just cut off the grade.

 

33 minutes ago, NoMan said:

not sure i understand here. store broke opened the slab, kept CGC's printed grade label, kept book in inner well but assigned their own grade to it?

So they tried to both maintain the signature verification and bump the grade at the same time?  Yet failed in both regards since the CGC grade can easily be looked up with the cert #, and they immediately voided the signature's certification by cracking the slab (I don't believe leaving it in the well maintains the integrity, unless I'm mistaken?). 

Sounds like a place where shady excrement is routine.

[pemart1966]

Anyone for small claims court?

[thunsicker]

2 hours ago, telerites said:

Any idea what grade was assigned to the book?

Also, I assume since it was raw, the buyer had a chance to inspect prior to purchase (it sounds like it was bought in-person at the store but maybe not)?

Just looking at GPA, a 1.5 SA restoration sold for $5,100 in March of this year.  The 50-70% less value seems a bit exaggerated.  

There are photos in the article, though they don’t show the back cover.  From the front it looks to be at least 3.5 or so (at least on my phone).  So the loss in value is probably exaggerated.  That said if it was sold as unrestored and was not he was still cheated.

 

EDIT:  That is to say the loss in value was exaggerated unless he meant that it would have been a $10k book unrestored and is now a $3k to $5k book.

Edited August 13, 2018 by thunsicker

[elibowman]

I've been to that store during my last business trip to PHX (easily the most "memorable" Uber ride I have ever had). Lots of high dollar books for sale. I grabbed a small stack of books, but nothing major. The prices were as expected for a brick and mortar. The vast majority of high dollar books were on display as photocopies only. You had to make an appointment to see the books in person (IIRC). They should give a full refund here...no question.

[Not A Clone]

Sounds like a place I won't plan to visit anytime soon. 

[telerites]

56 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

There are photos in the article, though they don’t show the back cover.  From the front it looks to be at least 3.5 or so (at least on my phone).  So the loss in value is probably exaggerated.  That said if it was sold as unrestored and was not he was still cheated.

 

EDIT:  That is to say the loss in value was exaggerated unless he meant that it would have been a $10k book unrestored and is now a $3k to $5k book.

Oh I agee, Tim.  Although if the buyer did inspect in-person prior to purchase, it may a little gray area.  It sounds like this shop has a reputation of shenanigans though, especially on this one, where it appears they explicitly either told or labeled the book as unrestored.  If so, their statement of not being restoration experts would make me ask, how they could say no restoration is present.  

 

[Not A Clone]

17 minutes ago, telerites said:

Oh I agee, Tim.  Although if the buyer did inspect in-person prior to purchase, it may a little gray area.  It sounds like this shop has a reputation of shenanigans though, especially on this one, where it appears they explicitly either told or labeled the book as unrestored.  If so, their statement of not being restoration experts would make me ask, how they could say no restoration is present.  

 

Nice catch! I didn't think of that. 

[Shadow Images]

2 hours ago, mattn792 said:

 

So they tried to both maintain the signature verification and bump the grade at the same time?  Yet failed in both regards since the CGC grade can easily be looked up with the cert #, and they immediately voided the signature's certification by cracking the slab (I don't believe leaving it in the well maintains the integrity, unless I'm mistaken?). 

Sounds like a place where shady excrement is routine.

It was a CGC labeled" from Jerry Robinson collection" not a signature. They cut off the grade portion of the header and then slide it back into place in the inner well and yes put a higher grade than CGC did. It too was a consignment item but the tag with the grade was theirs. They have always over graded in the 30 yrs I have know of the store. Have found a few deals they got caught slipping on but usually old school high price comic shop.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Shadow Images
added info

[mattn792]

9 minutes ago, Shadow Images said:

It was a CGC labeled" from Jerry Robinson collection" not a signature. They cut off the grade portion of the header and then slide it back into place in the inner well and yes put a higher grade than CGC did. It too was a consignment item but the tag with the grade was theirs. They have always over graded in the 30 yrs I have know of the store. Have found a few deals they got caught slipping on but usually old school high price comic shop.

Gotcha.  I've seen a bunch of Signature Series Robinson books that are labeled from his collection as well, so I just defaulted to that.  Though, same principle, did their cracking of the book void the Jerry Robinson portion of the certification?

Regardless, it remains weak sauce on the shop's part. 

[telerites]

8 minutes ago, Shadow Images said:

It was a CGC labeled" from Jerry Robinson collection" not a signature. They cut off the grade portion of the header and then slide it back into place in the inner well and yes put a higher grade than CGC did. It too was a consignment item but the tag with the grade was theirs. They have always over graded in the 30 yrs I have know of the store. Have found a few deals they got caught slipping on but usually old school high price comic shop.

Ah, sorry, I missed that.  Amazing how they have been in business so long (over 30 years) and I saw on their website they won Best Comic Book Store in 2016 although it doesn't say who awarded it. 

No wonder there is a history of dishonesty.  In my mind, these sort of unethical principles and practices probably have gone on for a long time.

[lou_fine]

5 minutes ago, telerites said:

Ah, sorry, I missed that.  Amazing how they have been in business so long (over 30 years) and I saw on their website they won Best Comic Book Store in 2016 although it doesn't say who awarded it. 

They actually won the Will Eisner Spirit of Comics Retailer Award for 2003 as awarded by the SD Comic Con to the supposedly top comic book retailer in the world for that year.  

[kav]

Wouldnt this be a no-brainer in small claims court?  A seller can say they dont guarantee anything but state laws as far as I understand them say that yes they do.  My dad sued someone and he tried to say that he does not guarantee his products and the judge informed him that yes you do and ruled for my dad.