AZ News, "unrestored" Hulk#1 bought from LCS was actually restored, buyer angry 1 1

[jcjames]

Disclaimer - I'm local and I visit this LCS on occasion. Very friendly staff, nice back-issue selection, and their consignments are, well consignments. Sometimes they're priced high if it's a consignment. Owners are indeed friendly folks. (no, I don't have a picture with them lol)

I've bought from them in the past but no grails or mega-$ keys.

The only "odd" thing that happened to a purchase there with me was a few years ago I bought a raw ASM300, and when I paged through it at the counter before buying it, I immediately noticed it was signed by McFarlane on the splash-page. Guy at the counter didn't realize it was signed and looked a bit surprised and it wasn't labeled as being a signed book so I think they missed that one (it can happen I suppose).

Other than that, I haven't had any sort of problem with them from my limited experience with them locally.

 

[thehumantorch]

If a store sells something that’s not as described they should refund money and make the buyer whole.  All the disclaimer signs on their walls and their claims to be experts in back issue comics - yet strangely not experts in restoration detection - doesn’t excuse them from selling something that’s not as described.

this story will hurt their business

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 8/13/2018 at 6:12 PM, MichelleCohen said:

If you read the statement, you will see that the owners already paid the consignor. This guy came back a full month later to complain when he reviewed the book in person himself. 

So...?

[James J Johnson]

13 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

So...?

Exactly. The seller is the one on the hook. Whether or not the seller is selling something he or someone else owns, the seller better be ready to stand behind the product that the seller sold and accepted money for.

[RockMyAmadeus]

By the way...."we're not experts at restoration detection" doesn't change the fact that the book is restored.

Right...?

"We're not experts at restoration detection" has an unspoken implication that follows it, which is "...so too bad. We're not responsible. Better luck next time!"

Which, obviously, is unenforceable, unless it was explicitly sold in "as is" condition.

Restoration is as much a fact of business in comics as non-original parts is in vintage automobiles. It's neither unusual nor rare.

Provided the buyer is telling the truth, AAB&C should refund him, chide themselves for taking a restored consignment, and go after the consignor. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

This is one of the reasons why I take every reasonable opportunity to share my terrible experience with House of Secrets in Burbank.

HOS sold me VG+-ish Avengers #1 for $600 or thereabouts in 2010. I took it to SDCC that year, got it signed by Stan (for $30!) and slabbed. I'd pressed it (my first Silver Age press job!), and it got a 5.5.

Of course, this was still a year before the movie, so the price wasn't a steal by any stretch.

The problem was, it came back 5th wrap married.

Sigh.

Took it back...but they were only willing to refund my original purchase price. 

Yes, I realize that it wasn't what I originally bought. It was now signed. But...it was demonstrably more valuable because of that.

Still, they got a book that was pressed, slabbed, and signed by Stan...and all it cost them was what I'd paid for the raw book.

So, yes, I'll talk about HOS being a restoration/problem book dumping ground, because that's what they are. They don't care, which is why I make sure everyone knows that. Has it cost them anything? Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately, that's not the point. If people who go there are aware, and take MORE precaution because of that...then it's a win. But I do it because they don't care and they actively harm people in the process. And I do it because, when I had a problem, they essentially said "not our problem. Too bad."

By the way....no, that's not the only restored book I bought from them...bought a Hulk #181, too, and a handful of others. The Hulk #181? CT was in the bottom right quadrant, in the brown rocks, not the usual red along the spine. Damn you clever color touchers!

So, if you ever find yourself at House of Secrets in Burbank, be VERRRRRRY careful about whatever you buy, check VERRRRRY carefully for Restoration, and COUNT PAGES.

[thehumantorch]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

This is one of the reasons why I take every reasonable opportunity to share my terrible experience with House of Secrets in Burbank.

HOS sold me VG+-ish Avengers #1 for $600 or thereabouts in 2010. I took it to SDCC that year, got it signed by Stan (for $30!) and slabbed. I'd pressed it (my first Silver Age press job!), and it got a 5.5.

Of course, this was still a year before the movie, so the price wasn't a steal by any stretch.

The problem was, it came back 5th wrap married.

Sigh.

Took it back...but they were only willing to refund my original purchase price. 

Yes, I realize that it wasn't what I originally bought. It was now signed. But...it was demonstrably more valuable because of that.

Still, they got a book that was pressed, slabbed, and signed by Stan...and all it cost them was what I'd paid for the raw book.

So, yes, I'll talk about HOS being a restoration/problem book dumping ground, because that's what they are. They don't care, which is why I make sure everyone knows that. Has it cost them anything? Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately, that's not the point. If people who go there are aware, and take MORE precaution because of that...then it's a win. But I do it because they don't care and they actively harm people in the process. And I do it because, when I had a problem, they essentially said "not our problem. Too bad."

By the way....no, that's not the only restored book I bought from them...bought a Hulk #181, too, and a handful of others. The Hulk #181? CT was in the bottom right quadrant, in the brown rocks, not the usual red along the spine. Damn you clever color touchers!

So, if you ever find yourself at House of Secrets in Burbank, be VERRRRRRY careful about whatever you buy, check VERRRRRY carefully for Restoration, and COUNT PAGES.

It’s a minefield out there, so many monkeyed books passed off as clean.  There’s a reason grading companies caught on and a good reason that raw books don’t sell for as much as graded books.

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

So, yes, I'll talk about HOS  being a restoration/problem book dumping ground, because that's what they are. They don't care, which is why I make sure everyone knows that. Has it cost them anything? Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately, that's not the point. If people who go there are aware, and take MORE precaution because of that...then it's a win. But I do it because they don't care and they actively harm people in the process. And I do it because, when I had a problem, they essentially said "not our problem. Too bad."

By the way....no, that's not the only restored book I bought from them...bought a Hulk #181, too, and a handful of others. The Hulk #181? CT was in the bottom right quadrant, in the brown rocks, not the usual red along the spine. Damn you clever color touchers!

So, if you ever find yourself at House of Secrets in Burbank, be VERRRRRRY careful about whatever you buy, check VERRRRRY carefully for Restoration, and COUNT PAGES.

Well, yes, it has.

I don't shop there and I used to. I use my own personal life experiences when walking through the world, but I keep my eyes and ears open always and, well, RMA is right about this place. Interesting how much seething animosity they had towards CGC on my first arrival there. It was serious haten' but I get it (or thought I did) encapsulation just ain't your thing. Different waves for different folks and stuff. And than it was like:

 Oh, now I get it. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by NoMan

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 minutes ago, NoMan said:

Well, yes, it has.

I don't shop there and I used to. I use my own personal life experiences when walking through the world, but I keep my eyes and ears open always and, well, RMA is right about this place. 

It certainly cost them my business, too, which I imagine they don't care about. But they sure liked to take my money. I spent roughly $30,000 there from 1999-2010, the vast majority of it from 2007-2010. That's not nothing. But...hey, that's the way it goes. 

[DavidTheDavid]

The best thing about this thread is the title and "buyer angry". Read that thread title to yourself in a Hulk voice, and you will thank yourself.

[aszumilo]

15 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

The best thing about this thread is the title and "buyer angry". Read that thread title to yourself in a Hulk voice, and you will thank yourself.

Do not make Buyer angry.  Buyer Smash!

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

It’s a minefield out there, so many monkeyed books passed off as clean. 

And I'll wager that in many of these instances neither buyer nor the seller have a clue. Know what you're buying and know what you're selling, and that's where the CGC comes in. A professional second opinion and resto check prior to selling something for thousands of dollars would eliminate the majority of these problems.  

[buttock]

4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

By the way...."we're not experts at restoration detection" doesn't change the fact that the book is restored.

Right...?

"We're not experts at restoration detection" has an unspoken implication that follows it, which is "...so too bad. We're not responsible. Better luck next time!"

Which, obviously, is unenforceable, unless it was explicitly sold in "as is" condition.

Restoration is as much a fact of business in comics as non-original parts is in vintage automobiles. It's neither unusual nor rare.

Provided the buyer is telling the truth, AAB&C should refund him, chide themselves for taking a restored consignment, and go after the consignor. 

The buyer had an opportunity to examine the book prior to purchase.  It was satisfactory then.  If they wanted a guarantee they should have asked for it.  

 

I'm not defending sellers selling restored books.  I'm pointing out the stupidity of a buyer dropping $5500 on something they are unqualified to assess.  That's just dumb.

[RockMyAmadeus]

36 minutes ago, buttock said:

5 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

By the way...."we're not experts at restoration detection" doesn't change the fact that the book is restored.

Right...?

"We're not experts at restoration detection" has an unspoken implication that follows it, which is "...so too bad. We're not responsible. Better luck next time!"

Which, obviously, is unenforceable, unless it was explicitly sold in "as is" condition.

Restoration is as much a fact of business in comics as non-original parts is in vintage automobiles. It's neither unusual nor rare.

Provided the buyer is telling the truth, AAB&C should refund him, chide themselves for taking a restored consignment, and go after the consignor. 

The buyer had an opportunity to examine the book prior to purchase.  It was satisfactory then.  If they wanted a guarantee they should have asked for it.  

 

I'm not defending sellers selling restored books.  I'm pointing out the stupidity of a buyer dropping $5500 on something they are unqualified to assess.  That's just dumb.

No disagreement there. And if the sellers had expressly stated "items are as is, all sales final", then the buyer would be completely out of recourse.

That's the difference between in-person and through-the-mail purchases. If you're not qualified to assess...ask for a guarantee, or at least a professional appraisal prior to purchase. If the seller balks...walk away.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 hours ago, NoMan said:

Interesting how much seething animosity they had towards CGC on my first arrival there. It was serious haten' but I get it (or thought I did) encapsulation just ain't your thing. Different waves for different folks and stuff. And than it was like:

 Oh, now I get it. 

They are a perfect example of the comic book seller who doesn't want their ability to sell what they want, at the price they want, questioned by anyone, which is why they rarely tolerated, during my patronage there, CGC slabs in the store.

They're also a perfect example of guys who come off as super laid back and nice....but who have absolutely no problem and zero qualms about bending you over metaphorically and doing the deed.

Unfortunate, but they just celebrated 25 years last year, so it's not like they're going to be affected by "the free market."

[DavidTheDavid]

1 hour ago, buttock said:

The buyer had an opportunity to examine the book prior to purchase.  It was satisfactory then.  If they wanted a guarantee they should have asked for it.  

 

I'm not defending sellers selling restored books.  I'm pointing out the stupidity of a buyer dropping $5500 on something they are unqualified to assess.  That's just dumb.

I agree. Due diligence for that book would tell me that I need to make that informed check, and if I lack the skills, I should have someone else do it. This buyer did that essentially, relying on the seller to make that judgment call. But a third party opinion would have helped everyone involved. If only a company provided such a service...

[comicwiz]

This story reminds me of a shop (now no longer in business) who carried consignment books from a person who was known for colour touching books. He began consigning them through a shop on Yonge, then moved over to this other shop in the west end of the city. Having seen his books before, there was an unmistakable way he would describe the books, usually with tent cards, bright marker, and descriptions meant to entice buyers. I would walk into the shop and ask if these were consigned by this person, and he'd answer yes. After walking in several times and asking on different books, and not buying any of them, he asked why I was asking if they belonged to this person. Looking back now, I probably should have just told him the guy was going to give him problems, but I did buy a few books from him that were consigned that turned out to be ok. I scrutinized and looked over those books carefully though. A few years went by, and I went to see him one day and noticed he had gotten rid of all this persons consignment books. I guess he would initially bring in good material, but after moving some pieces through a shop, he'd start dumping problem books, and the shop owner eventually had his fill with the hassle of being between the buyer and the consignor. Unfortunately, he showed me a pile of CGC purple label books which he had to take back, but this was an example of a shop owner that did the right thing, probably lost his shirt in the process, and eventually got rid of the consignors books altogether.

[NoMan]

11 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

They are a perfect example of the comic book seller who doesn't want their ability to sell what they want, at the price they want, questioned by anyone, which is why they rarely tolerated, during my patronage there, CGC slabs in the store.

They're also a perfect example of guys who come off as super laid back and nice....but who have absolutely no problem and zero qualms about bending you over metaphorically and doing the deed.

Unfortunate, but they just celebrated 25 years last year, so it's not like they're going to be affected by "the free market."

again, gotta back up what RMA is saying

[slg343]

I shop here sometimes.  Mostly for collected edition books as they have the best inventory in town.  Their store set up is also one any new shop should study.  Clean, organized and well stocked.  With that said all of their keys are over priced and over graded waiting on a sucker.  I didn't get the impression they were purposely dishonest, I just get the feeling they want to run things like they used to be when they started 25 years ago.  It is like the internet doesn't exist to them, very strange. 

Anybody in phoenix area I would recommend newer shop in Scottsdale ( Fantastic worlds)  Also a large selection of back issues and keys, many graded books with fair prices and the owner is more of a passionate hobbyist then a cut throat penny squeezer. 

[01TheDude]

10 minutes ago, slg343 said:

I shop here sometimes.  Mostly for collected edition books as they have the best inventory in town.  Their store set up is also one any new shop should study.  Clean, organized and well stocked.  With that said all of their keys are over priced and over graded waiting on a sucker.  I didn't get the impression they were purposely dishonest, I just get the feeling they want to run things like they used to be when they started 25 years ago.  It is like the internet doesn't exist to them, very strange. 

Anybody in phoenix area I would recommend newer shop in Scottsdale ( Fantastic worlds)  Also a large selection of back issues and keys, many graded books with fair prices and the owner is more of a passionate hobbyist then a cut throat penny squeezer. 

I think some well known boardies own that store -- @ciorac and one other guy whose name escapes me at the moment. I've been in there when it was first starting out but haven't had a chance to come back when they are open otherwise. Haven't seen or heard from them since I gave them a hand setting up for the 2016 Phoenix Con.