Odd Interaction with Art Rep 2 2

[Peter L]

I just had the strangest interaction with an art rep.  There was a comic cover I liked so I found the rep online.  I messaged the rep through CAF and he responded that the artist didn't want to sell it right now.  A few months go by and I ask again.  The rep says he is willing to sell and how much do you want to pay for it.  I ask for a photo and ask what medium its in and the size.  The photo comes back and so I make an offer.  

Then a few hours later the rep writes back that someone else just offered more and it is sold.  I didn't even know I was bidding for it.  I would have paid whatever if he just gave me a price.  I have never dealt with a rep like that before.  Do you have any thoughts?
 

[pemart1966]

If it was indeed sold, it doesn't sound like the rep handled it very well.  He should have called you back, explaining the situation, then trying to get you to raise your price all for the benefit of his client.

You weren't bidding on it - it sounds like "Offer B is higher than offer A therefore I'm selling it to offer B."

 

[Peter L]

It's kind of sad for the artist.  I guess I'm just used to dealing with a different kind of art dealer.

[The Voord]

Depends on whether or not you made a strong offer.  What you wanted to pay and what the dealer was hoping to achieve might be poles apart? Not saying it's applicable to you, but I do know that low-ball offers can be a big turn-off in negotiations that can often kill exploratory talks cold stone dead (a general observation).  Did you ask for a ball-park figure when pitching your offer?

[ExNihilo]

It amazes me that people are able to find themselves in positions to represent artists, musicians, athletes, actors, actresses, etc.  Someone does all the work and a rep slides in, does some negotiating, maybe some marketing, and gets to pocket a % of the earnings.  I reached out to a rep via the contact address on their site once and was met with silence.  I then tried reaching out to them via twitter/insta.  Still silence.  On a separate occasion, I reached out to a smaller creator directly about artwork and received a response within 24 hours.  I dunno if the creators are so busy that they're out of the loop on how their reps deal with things, but it hasn't really endeared me to the original art aspect of the hobby.  The creators seem to actually care about your appreciation for their work.  The rep just feels like a cold middle man taking a cut on something I don't feel they deserve.  Maybe I was unlucky and just had a bad first experience, but stories like OP's don't help my limited perception of the business.

[timguerrero]

Would you care to let us know who the rep was? This might help those that will deal with the rep in order to act accordingly. Txs

[MIL0S]

19 hours ago, The Voord said:

Depends on whether or not you made a strong offer.  What you wanted to pay and what the dealer was hoping to achieve might be poles apart? Not saying it's applicable to you, but I do know that low-ball offers can be a big turn-off in negotiations that can often kill exploratory talks cold stone dead (a general observation).  Did you ask for a ball-park figure when pitching your offer?

and that's why 'make an offer' is such a turn off for many people. if you're a dealer/rep price the damn art. 

[JadeGiant]

Tough scenario to diagnose without more info. If the art wasn’t listed for sale then it most likely didn’t have a price on it and legitimately might have been something the artist wanted to keep. It happens. Do you have confidence that you made a strong offer in terms of FMV plus?

[The Voord]

1 hour ago, MIL0S said:

and that's why 'make an offer' is such a turn off for many people. if you're a dealer/rep price the damn art. 

Oh, I agree, 'make an offer' can be a big turn-off for most, me included  . . . but it perhaps offers a glimmer of hope for something like this one that was previously unavailable as a NFS item.  In lieu of more detailed background information, we can only guess at possible scenarios.  Did the OP make a strong enough offer (he suggests that he would have paid, "Whatever" if the rep had only given him a price)?  As there was a second buyer in the loop willing to pay more, I can perhaps see things from the rep's side . . . was the artist happy to say yes to the higher offer put to him (which I imagine was the case) . . . or did the rep not want to pizz-off the guy coming in with a stronger offer by making it a bidding war?

For what it's worth, I've been placed in the 'make an offer' camp myself on occasion.  If I'm seriously interested, I'll put my money where my mouth is and back my interest with a strong offer (knowing full well that if I try to play low-ball shenanigans - that idea could easily backfire on me).

Edited August 14, 2018 by The Voord

[JadeGiant]

 

I am NOT a fan of items listed as being for sale with the make an offer as the listed price. I almost always keep on going when I see something like this.

 

That said, this scenario falls into the grey as the piece was not listed for sale and not advertised as being for sale with the make an offer price tag.

 

The potential buyer inquired multiple times and got an indication of willingness to sell. Still not listed as a for sale item I don’t see a problem with asking for an offer personally. The artist may have been willing to sell but the price offered may not have motivated them. Maybe another offer did.

 

Still, too much unknown to make a call if the rep did anything shady.

 

I have learned the lesson of being ready to buy if you are successful in “digging out” art that is not listed for sale. If you are going to inquire on NFS art, be ready to make a strong offer or risk losing it completely. I have seen it happen more than once so I don’t even open communication unless I feel I can close the deal if I get the owner thinking about a sale.

[Peter L]

More has happened since my original post and in my opinion it is very strange.    I have since been told I have been able to successfully buy the piece.   But I am not exactly sure.   I'll let you know what happens.

As to more details of the original, that's all there was as in my original post.  That's what made it so weird.

I've spent a lot of money with most of the dealers (and many CAF collectors) we all know and in all the years I've been collecting this is the weirdest.  

[mister_not_so_nice]

15 minutes ago, Peter L said:

More has happened since my original post and in my opinion it is very strange.    I have since been told I have been able to successfully buy the piece.   But I am not exactly sure.   I'll let you know what happens.

As to more details of the original, that's all there was as in my original post.  That's what made it so weird.

I've spent a lot of money with most of the dealers (and many CAF collectors) we all know and in all the years I've been collecting this is the weirdest.  

If/when you you are able to purchase are you paying the price you offered? Or the price the 'other guy' offered and then for one reason or another was unable to follow through on?

[Rick2you2]

This may not have been the doing of the dealer but the artist.

Since the piece was not listed for sale, it may not have been the rep who had the right to sell it. The artist may have made a private deal which went badly, or he originally used the excuse of private sale because he wanted to keep it and then he changed his mind. A less likely possibility is that the rep did have a right to sell, told the artist he couldn't make a private deal, and ended up getting the right to sell it.

[batman_fan]

I did a deal on a piece several years back. We agreed on the price but then he came back and said he got a higher offer but if I matched the higher offer he would sell to me. I always wonder if there was another buyer or if it was a ploy to extract more money since I paid the higher price. 

[Mr. Machismo]

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

I did a deal on a piece several years back. We agreed on the price but then he came back and said he got a higher offer but if I matched the higher offer he would sell to me. I always wonder if there was another buyer or if it was a ploy to extract more money since I paid the higher price. 

Common and I imagine usually untrue. 

[JadeGiant]

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

I did a deal on a piece several years back. We agreed on the price but then he came back and said he got a higher offer but if I matched the higher offer he would sell to me. I always wonder if there was another buyer or if it was a ploy to extract more money since I paid the higher price. 

Sadly, this is a common tactic used by reps to get more money from a potential buyer. 

[PhilipB2k17]

5 hours ago, batman_fan said:

I did a deal on a piece several years back. We agreed on the price but then he came back and said he got a higher offer but if I matched the higher offer he would sell to me. I always wonder if there was another buyer or if it was a ploy to extract more money since I paid the higher price. 

I'd ask for him to prove it, or move on. I'd never match that. 

[batman_fan]

8 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I'd ask for him to prove it, or move on. I'd never match that. 

I actually have no regrets. It was a piece I wanted for a very long time and didn’t even know if I would ever find it. It hangs in my man cave where I still enjoy staring at it each day. 

[Rick2you2]

 

4 hours ago, JadeGiant said:

Sadly, this is a common tactic used by reps to get more money from a potential buyer. 

My suspicion is that the prospective buyer expressed too much interest in the piece to the dealer.  

[Peter L]

I have an update.  I now have the artwork.

On 8/16/2018 at 2:44 PM, Rick2you2 said:

 

My suspicion is that the prospective buyer expressed too much interest in the piece to the dealer.  

I wrote to him and I told him I was interested and asked how much.  I wasn't given a number and when he asked how much I wanted to pay I made an offer.  Then I was told it was sold.  So if this was a trick by the art dealer to boost the price, I would think he would have given me a number to start out with or not said it was sold.  When I got that email that it was sold , my first thought was to not respond because it was already sold, and my second thought was to respond with an F U.  So then if this was a trick, I think most people would have not responded but given up.

On 8/16/2018 at 5:18 AM, Rick2you2 said:

This may not have been the doing of the dealer but the artist.

Since the piece was not listed for sale, it may not have been the rep who had the right to sell it. The artist may have made a private deal which went badly, or he originally used the excuse of private sale because he wanted to keep it and then he changed his mind. A less likely possibility is that the rep did have a right to sell, told the artist he couldn't make a private deal, and ended up getting the right to sell it.

The dealer at one point said the artist is making the dealer do something weird in handling this.   At another point the dealer said he had me confused with another potential buyer and he thought he sent me a range.  

After I got the message it was sold, I responded and said I didn't know this was an auction and I was never given a price.  

My offer was based on other covers that this artist did that the dealer had for sale.  The artist is not a top superstar but you might have heard of his name.  To my knowledge he has not done any top tier titles but I know he did one of the lesser titles for a major publisher.  I might be wrong but I actively still read comics and follow Previews and look at CAF and CBR every day and I can't answer that.  This was for a variant cover of a #1 issue (one of five?) for a non major character for a smaller publisher.   It is not something I normally would collect, and don't usually collect his work, but it is a nice piece and it is the best work I have seen of his.  

The agent responded later that he thought he sent me a price and said he might have gotten me confused with another buyer and asked me to make a bid again.  I responded send me a price and I'll pay.  He gave me a range of prices.  I responded send me a price and I'll pay.  So he sent me a price the middle of the range.  This was going on for over a day.  Then I went home and didn't check my email.  In the next few hours when I was eating dinner, he emailed me repeatedly asking if he can call me, asking if I agree to the price, if it was ok, he needed to know right away etc.  

The price was a little higher than his other works which were often just a few figures and pen and ink, but he put much more effort into this piece so I was ok with that price.  When I commented that this procedure was strange, he said the artist is having him do something strange.  So maybe it was the artist.  Maybe it was the dealer.  Maybe the dealer was confused as he was packing up from a convention.  

There is more weirdness to the story regarding the payment and how I couldn't get ahold of the dealer for the next day as we agreed, but I'm as bored typing this as I'm sure you are reading this.  

The art did arrive in an itoya portfolio with a signed print of the work on one side and the art on the other.  It looks very nice.  I've never had a dealer do that before.  So I think it is a happy ending.  But it does make me appreciate the other art dealers more in how professional and hassle free they are.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Peter L
incorrect grammar