ComicConnect and ComicLink August auctions 8 8

[lou_fine]

6 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

55 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Not sure what CGC will be able to do here as it appears that somebody somewhere along the line did not handle the book with enough care when they decided to crack it out and go for the upgrade.  As for the PQ going down, that's not really totally abnormal as many boardies here tend to say that PQ is the most inconsistent part about the entire CGC grading process.  

The positive I see here for you is that the lower PQ and the second wrap being detached probably was a factor for the price drop and resulted in the book falling into your lap, where it otherwise might have gone for a higher price to somebody else.  

CGC didnt do anything wrong here.  I talked to Matt Nelson and he filled me in.  The previous owner tried to bump it up a grade by having it pressed by persons unknown, and then the book was resubmitted as a raw to CGC.  Whoever did the pressing got some bends out of it, but somewhere in the process, a second wrap became detached.  So whatever improvements got made on the bends, got lost when the second wrap detached.  I guess I view this as a cautionary tale.  Whoever took the chance on this book lost big time:  They lost $10k on the auction block, paid their vig for the new sale to Clink, and had to pay the CGC grading fee.  Looks like a $20k loss to somebody.  And yes, you are right:  in the final analysis, I got the same 6.5 for $10k less than otherwise.

I'm keeping the book, happy to have it, and still love CGC

And don't forget about both the pressing and all of the shipping charges back and forth which can add up pretty fast.

Looks like you ended up being the real winner out of all this on both a short term basis and definitely on a longer term basis with a key book of this magnitude.  

[cheetah]

4 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

And don't forget about both the pressing and all of the shipping charges back and forth which can add up pretty fast.

Looks like you ended up being the real winner out of all this on both a short term basis and definitely on a longer term basis with a key book of this magnitude.  

Did you ask Matt if the pages could be reattached?  I know from experience that this can be done in some cases.

[comicnoir]

27 minutes ago, szavisca said:

It’ll be my heirs selling this one...

 I’ll be sure to tell them to emphasize the ‘classic cat fight” feel the cover has to whoever they sell it to, as well as the superior technical quality of Whitman’s work relative to his contemporaries.

I don’t normally care to pay a premium for highest graded but this one could conceivably hold the title for a while ... the Church copy is a 9.0.

Pardon my rambling I just really really love this book, and am thrilled to have been able to get a hold of it for about the price of a Hulk 181 5.0 nowadays...

I love this cover too. When I first saw it I wasn't quite sure who the brunette on the horse was jealous of.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

18 minutes ago, cheetah said:

Did you ask Matt if the pages could be reattached?  I know from experience that this can be done in some cases.

I did ask. Matt says they can’t. 

I don’t know the mechanics of this, why sometimes they can and why sometimes they can’t 

[lou_fine]

3 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

22 minutes ago, cheetah said:

Did you ask Matt if the pages could be reattached?  I know from experience that this can be done in some cases.

I did ask. Matt says they can’t. 

I don’t know the mechanics of this, why sometimes they can and why sometimes they can’t 

I guess it's a different case if the staples were never attached to the pages in the first place.  

Remember the infamous Church copy of Boy Comics 17 where it went from an original CGC 3.0 graded copy up to a CGC 73.5 graded copy before finally settling into a CGC 9.0 slab, all while retaining its blue label at the same time.  That also had something to do with staples that were never attached in the first place and then simply attached for a big upgrade.  

[cheetah]

5 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I did ask. Matt says they can’t. 

I don’t know the mechanics of this, why sometimes they can and why sometimes they can’t 

I think it is a matter of how the paper tests around the staple.  Sometimes there is a flap that the staples can be pinched down onto.  Sometimes there is a hole.

As a note to the perils of pressing, detached center folds happen to me in about 1% of GA press jobs.  About half could be fixed.

[cheetah]

16 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I guess it's a different case if the staples were never attached to the pages in the first place.  

Remember the infamous Church copy of Boy Comics 17 where it went from an original CGC 3.0 graded copy up to a CGC 73.5 graded copy before finally settling into a CGC 9.0 slab, all while retaining its blue label at the same time.  That also had something to do with staples that were never attached in the first place and then simply attached for a big upgrade.  

Was that the one that had no staples to begin with but showed up later correctly stapled?

[lou_fine]

21 minutes ago, cheetah said:

38 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I guess it's a different case if the staples were never attached to the pages in the first place.  

Remember the infamous Church copy of Boy Comics 17 where it went from an original CGC 3.0 graded copy up to a CGC 73.5 graded copy before finally settling into a CGC 9.0 slab, all while retaining its blue label at the same time.  That also had something to do with staples that were never attached in the first place and then simply attached for a big upgrade.  

Was that the one that had no staples to begin with but showed up later correctly stapled?

Most probably that's the one.  

All I remember is when Borock came onto these boards here after days of angst and in order to clarify the controversy that was stirring and running rampant at the time, gave us the following statement:

"Disassembly and reassembly of a comic book in and of itself does not constitute restoration"  

I believe it was somewhere along those lines and as per usual, the typical retroactive way by force that we find out about CGC's grading and restoration standards, instead of having them proactively and properly disseminated to the collectors and marketplace.  And like the whole undisclosed pressing controversy that came to light a few months just prior to this, it unfortunately opened the floodgates even wider to much more artificial undisclosed manipulation of the books.    

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by lou_fine

[cheetah]

42 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Most probably that's the one.  

All I remember is when Borock came onto these boards here after days of angst and in order to clarify the controversy that was stirring and running rampant at the time, gave us the following statement:

"Disassembly and reassembly of a comic book in and of itself does not constitute restoration"  

I believe it was somewhere along those lines and as per usual, the typical retroactive way by force that we find out about CGC's grading and restoration standards, instead of having them proactively and properly disseminated to the collectors and marketplace.  And like the whole undisclosed pressing controversy that came to light a few months just prior to this, it unfortunately opened the floodgates even wider to much more artificial undisclosed manipulation of the books.    

 

The real rule is if they can't identify it when the book is in hand, then it must be okay.  If they don't see it but someone finds out after the fact, then it is definitely okay.  There is no chance they will endure another trimming debacle.

[Gotham Kid]

Totally called it via PMs several weeks ago on the ComicLink pair of 3.0s (Detective 36 and 37) on account of the tape.

10K for 37 and 12K for 36

Market has spoken. Tape, no thanks.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Gotham Kid

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

5 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

Totally called it via PMs several weeks ago on the ComicLink pair of 3.0s (Detective 36 and 37) on account of the tape.

10K for 37 and 12K for 36

Market has spoken. Tape, no thanks.

You were right! The Bat 1 has tape all over the place to the point I wouldn’t want it. Still, it managed to go for 3 x Guide

[Chicago Boy]

33 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

You were right! The Bat 1 has tape all over the place to the point I wouldn’t want it. Still, it managed to go for 3 x Guide

I think it’s safe to say that Bats 1 has pulled away from any discussion of being neck and neck with Cap 1.  Bats 1 is the #4 book in the hobby 

[lou_fine]

19 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

53 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

You were right! The Bat 1 has tape all over the place to the point I wouldn’t want it. Still, it managed to go for 3 x Guide

I think it’s safe to say that Bats 1 has pulled away from any discussion of being neck and neck with Cap 1.  Bats 1 is the #4 book in the hobby 

You should be careful of how you phrase your opinions on these boards here.  

After all, Mitch who is a huge supporter of Cap 1 just might see your comments and decide to give you a good       here until your head really hurts.  

[Ricksneatstuff]

I have a pretty good guess but who beat me on Junior 15?

[Junkdrawer]

2 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

I have a pretty good guess but who beat me on Junior 15?

Nifty results. Good for us guys in the Junior 15 Club. It’s been years since there’s been something so stimulating 

[Ricksneatstuff]

Just now, Junkdrawer said:

Nifty results. Good for us guys in the Junior 15 Club. It’s been years since there’s been something so stimulating 

Was it you Chris?

[Junkdrawer]

2 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

Was it you Chris?

Nope just spectating. 

[Ltpink2002]

[atomised]

jiminy cricket I got sniped in the last seconds on the MM1 3.0. Hope a boardie took it home. Man I was aggressive on that bid.

[dem1138]

2 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

You were right! The Bat 1 has tape all over the place to the point I wouldn’t want it. Still, it managed to go for 3 x Guide

I agree, the Batman #1 CGC 1.5 had tape the entire length of the spine and sold for a record price.  So I'd say no, the jury's still out on tape.  It really depends on the book and how many buyers there are for it at any given moment.  If I want the book, I don't really care about tape.  That's the thing about GA, you don't have many (or sometimes more than one) chances with certain books in certain grades and so you have to be open minded to the books available to you.  You never know when another copy is going to show up and what the price point will be when that happens.  This can shift depending on multiple copies being available in a short period of time, but there's no hard and fast rule here.

Edited August 30, 2018 by dem1138