Stretching the opinion 0

[Senormac]

The golden age Plastic Man market left me behind a number of years ago.   At some point  I realized that the earliest  issues of  Plas and Police were just out of my reach financially,

and I yielded to the logic.  Home and family or pursuit of a worthy census run.  I couldn't do both well. 

Anyways, I still occasionally check the listings and keep an eye on what books are available in the marketplace which is how I came across this.  

It's obviously the same book, but WOW...… that's a nice bump.  How does something like this happen ?

Somebody somewhere is probably pretty mad.  

Thoughts ? 

 

 

  

 

 

 

[Artboy99]

obviously the 9.0 was not pressed. I can actually see where it "improved"

To bad though as I prefer the old holder to the newton rings.

[comicjack]

Old labels are often cracked and sometimes you get lucky with an upgrade.I have seen a 5.5 go up to a 8.0 and i wonder how is that possible.In this world of press and manipulate money is the motive 

Edited August 23, 2018 by comicjack

[Senormac]

1 hour ago, comicjack said:

Old labels are often cracked and sometimes you get lucky with an upgrade.I have seen a 5.5 go up to a 8.0 and i wonder how is that possible.In this world of press and manipulate money is the motive 

That's $825 of luck !!  Wouldn't one tend to question what the hell was wrong with the first grade ?  Are the graders of the early days all that incorrect ?  

 

[Senormac]

1 hour ago, Artboy99 said:

obviously the 9.0 was not pressed. I can actually see where it "improved"

I think the question of  FIDELITY could come up before long with that kind of change. 

[comicjack]

I don't pressing was going so much back then and grading was tighter for the most part. 

[Senormac]

 I wasn't aware of the page quality enhancements  of pressing 

 

 

 

[comicjack]

10 minutes ago, Senormac said:

 I wasn't aware of the page quality enhancements  of pressing 

 

 

 

They should of used the Owl card now they use the fowl card for page quality  

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, Senormac said:

 I wasn't aware of the page quality enhancements  of pressing 

 

 

 

 

Glad to see the old guy is back senormac!  

 

Much more your style. 

This is an intriguing thread and raises many questions. I wonder how the owner of the 9.4 feels when he or she sees that his or her book used to be a lower grade copy with inferior page quality? Something of the original purity of the book is lost whenever it is artificially enhanced I feel. Subjective grading differences aside, can yesterdays 9.0 really be todays 9.4? And would you be happy to own it and then discover this history? 

If you were offered this book, and a freshly graded, untouched 9.4, which would you prefer? Would you care? And who won the FA Cup in 1964?

And how comical that a book that was graded as a 9.0 and placed in a lovely case is then upgraded to a 9.4 and then ruined by a new improved case. You couldn't make it up. But you could make a whole lotta money in the process, as your bump observation neatly indicates.

Thank The Lord for the gift of laughter!

Spoiler

 

[rjpb]

1 hour ago, Senormac said:

 I wasn't aware of the page quality enhancements  of pressing 

 

 

 

It squeezes some of the cream out.

[rjpb]

Even without pressing, reasonable and knowledgable graders are going to be in a range on a given book,  often in a three grade range.  Pressing even small flaws can push the grade towards the top end. 

I once had a book I bought raw as a VF+, that came back a 9.0 from CGC, and was thrilled. The only notable flaw was a 1&1/2" corner crease, barely visible from the front, no color break, but on the inside you could definitely see the "rope" effect of paper stress along the crease. I wasn't aware this could be pressed out, and maybe it wasn't, but after I sold it, the same book showed up in a 9.4 slab. 

[Get Marwood & I]

17 minutes ago, rjpb said:

Even without pressing, reasonable and knowledgable graders are going to be in a range on a given book,  often in a three grade range. 

If true, I can send a book to CGC and get a 9.0, 9.2 or 9.4 depending on which grader is grading it on which day. If the difference in prices on some books are so huge, how is this right? 

If high value books go to a committee, fair enough. The group decide on the final grade and even each other out. But what is the definition of high value? Is an ASM 129 high value? If not, and only one grader grades it, the difference between a 9.0 and a 9.4 is still significant. 

Bad luck, Barry graded it a 9.0. If you'd have sent it in a day later, Dave would've given it a 9.4. Sorry about the few hundred dollars. 

Who's going to be first to say 'what's the alternative then?'? 

[rjpb]

35 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

If true, I can send a book to CGC and get a 9.0, 9.2 or 9.4 depending on which grader is grading it on which day. If the difference in prices on some books are so huge, how is this right? 

If high value books go to a committee, fair enough. The group decide on the final grade and even each other out. But what is the definition of high value? Is an ASM 129 high value? If not, and only one grader grades it, the difference between a 9.0 and a 9.4 is still significant. 

Bad luck, Barry graded it a 9.0. If you'd have sent it in a day later, Dave would've given it a 9.4. Sorry about the few hundred dollars. 

Who's going to be first to say 'what's the alternative then?'? 

The huge differences in price are a result of the awarded grade, not the actual condition of the book. There's was always flexibility in price and grade before CGC, one dealers NM was another's VF/NM, and even with identically graded books the ask could typically be from x to 2x, all without most buyers thinking grade or price unrealistic. The latter part is still true, even with CGC  graded books, especially when factors like eye-appeal and PQ are taken into consideration, but the number on the slab now validates the grade, so that even a weak 9.4 will likely fetch more than a strong 9.0, regardless of which book looks better (though not always, especially with pedigrees).

The bigger change is that one didn't used to expect to pay much more than a 50% premium for a NM over a VF/NM from the same seller, so what someone else though the grade should be wasn't as huge a factor. When that difference is more readily measured in multiples than percentages, assigned grade comes to matter more, but it doesn't make it any more "accurate" in the abstract. 

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, rjpb said:

The huge differences in price are a result of the awarded grade, not the actual condition of the book. There's was always flexibility in price and grade before CGC, one dealers NM was another's VF/NM, and even with identically graded books the ask could typically be from x to 2x, all without most buyers thinking grade or price unrealistic. The latter part is still true, even with CGC  graded books, especially when factors like eye-appeal and PQ are taken into consideration, but the number on the slab now validates the grade, so that even a weak 9.4 will likely fetch more than a strong 9.0, regardless of which book looks better (though not always, especially with pedigrees).

The bigger change is that one didn't used to expect to pay much more than a 50% premium for a NM over a VF/NM from the same seller, so what someone else though the grade should be wasn't as huge a factor. When that difference is more readily measured in multiples than percentages, assigned grade comes to matter more, but it doesn't make it any more "accurate" in the abstract. 

Try telling that to Barry and Dave. 

[porcupine48]

9 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

 

Who's going to be first to say 'what's the alternative then?'? 

I think Watties saying something about it,but not sure...

 

[Artboy99]

The thing is, you can send the same book in multiple times do nothing to it each time and get different grades.

While we would like to think the grading is super consistent the truth is it isn't.

It would be a very interesting experiment, and were I a gazillionaire I would definitely do a test.

Send the same book in for grading 1000 times, and record the results.

How many times does it get damaged during shipping?

How many times does it get damaged during grading/ encapsulation?

How many times does the final encapsulated product have newton rings?

And the FA Cup in 1964 was won by the West Ham

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Artboy99

[Senormac]

Well, with all the ragging on PGX that goes on around here, I thought this was an interesting story, because it shows that grading is subjective.  

I'm not a pro PGX guy.  I just find it interesting that ALL grading seems to be open to interpretation and opinion. 

 A good name is worth more than fine gold !!  

Edited August 25, 2018 by Senormac

[Get Marwood & I]

14 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

And the FA Cup in 1964 was won by the West Ham