Reholder/Date Graded Problem? 0

[Professor K]

Hi, I just spoke to CGC about an issue. The rep told me that when a book gets a re-holder  that the date of the re-holdering now becomes the new Graded Date.

I questioned him a few times but he still said yes.

Anybody know if this is true?

This means if a book graded in 1995 gets a new slab in 2018, then it is considered graded in 2018. If this is so I believe it is wrong, the original date graded is what should remain in the verification notes.  Any thoughts, verification about this? thanks

Edited August 23, 2018 by kc2112

[comicquant]

This is true.  I thought the original grade date was supposed to persist as well because I've seen the new slabs with pre 2005 graded dates.  Maybe you're able to request graded date preservation but I've never heard anyone mention it.  I sent in a few old labels to be reholdered and they came back with a new grade date and a new cert #.  The old certs had been removed from the census.  I've also heard of books getting reholdered that actually came back a different grade.  Someone had a slab crack which caused damage to the book and it came back lower.  Which makes sense but the submitter was very surprised to say the least.  CGC doesn't want a 5.0 going around in a 9.0 case.  

[MustEatBrains]

22 minutes ago, comicquant said:

This is true.  I thought the original grade date was supposed to persist as well because I've seen the new slabs with pre 2005 graded dates.  Maybe you're able to request graded date preservation but I've never heard anyone mention it.  I sent in a few old labels to be reholdered and they came back with a new grade date and a new cert #.  The old certs had been removed from the census.  I've also heard of books getting reholdered that actually came back a different grade.  Someone had a slab crack which caused damage to the book and it came back lower.  Which makes sense but the submitter was very surprised to say the least.  CGC doesn't want a 5.0 going around in a 9.0 case.  

I was wondering about this as well.  I've been looking at this auction on CLink:

http://comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH.ASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Ddetective%2Bcomics%26GO%3DGO%26ItemType%3DCB%23Item_1268926&id=1268926&itemType=0

The grade date is 2000 but it's in a second gen holder.  Not sure exactly when they switch from the old labels to second gen but I suspect this was a reholder that retained the original grade date.  Does anyone know when the first 2nd gen slabs were introduced?  For the record I think reslabbed books should retain the original grade date only if the slab is undamaged and does not require a regrading.

Certification Information

Certification #:	0004380015
Title:	Detective Comics
Issue:	36
Issue Date:	2/40
Issue Year:	1940
Publisher:	D.C. Comics
Grade:	3.0
Page Quality:	CREAM
Label Text:	Tape along entire spine. Tape on 1st wrap.
Grade Date:	04/04/2000
Category:	Universal

 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by MustEatBrains

[Avi]

Why does the graded date matter?

[comicquant]

1 hour ago, MustEatBrains said:

I was wondering about this as well.  I've been looking at this auction on CLink:

http://comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH.ASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Ddetective%2Bcomics%26GO%3DGO%26ItemType%3DCB%23Item_1268926&id=1268926&itemType=0

The grade date is 2000 but it's in a second gen holder.  Not sure exactly when they switch from the old labels to second gen but I suspect this was a reholder that retained the original grade date.  Does anyone know when the first 2nd gen slabs were introduced?  For the record I think reslabbed books should retain the original grade date only if the slab is undamaged and does not require a regrading.

Certification Information

Certification #:	0004380015
Title:	Detective Comics
Issue:	36
Issue Date:	2/40
Issue Year:	1940
Publisher:	D.C. Comics
Grade:	3.0
Page Quality:	CREAM
Label Text:	Tape along entire spine. Tape on 1st wrap.
Grade Date:	04/04/2000
Category:	Universal

 

 

I know I've had many 2nd generation slabs with 1st generation grade dates (pre 2006) so I think they started doing this just in the last few years.  Maybe even at the start of the 3rd generation.  They probably learned a lesson the first time they introduced a new generation of slab.  With the influx of reholder requests, having to manually update a label instead of just hitting the magic button is likely operationally untenable from both the labor and quality control perspective.  But, I know I've seen the latest generation with previous generation's grade date so maybe you can request that it be transferred.    

[MustEatBrains]

1 hour ago, Avi said:

Why does the graded date matter?

IMO and there's some general consensus that grading can be "tight" or "loose" at certain times and some folks will look at grade date in conjuction with the book itself when assessing a purchase.

[Professor K]

15 hours ago, MustEatBrains said:

IMO and there's some general consensus that grading can be "tight" or "loose" at certain times and some folks will look at grade date in conjuction with the book itself when assessing a purchase.

I'm glad I waited for you to say it. I could never have stated it so L O Kwent Lee. I feel the grade date is the grade date regardless of how many times it was re-slabbed.  thanks all.

Edited August 24, 2018 by kc2112

[Bomber-Bob]

21 hours ago, kc2112 said:

Hi, I just spoke to CGC about an issue. The rep told me that when a book gets a re-holder  that the date of the re-holdering now becomes the new Graded Date.

I questioned him a few times but he still said yes.

Anybody know if this is true?

This means if a book graded in 1995 gets a new slab in 2018, then it is considered graded in 2018. If this is so I believe it is wrong, the original date graded is what should remain in the verification notes.  Any thoughts, verification about this? thanks

In my experience, the grade date usually remains the same. IMO, it should remain the same. After all it is the date the book was graded, not the reholder date. However, they may be doing it differently now because of the new slabs and the new label design = they may have to re input the information. 

[Bowtiebuilder]

I have read every comment on this post, and IMO a grade change after a re-holder submission is a direct correlation with CGC's grading integrity throughout the past. I can CLEARLY discern grading patterns within all my CGC books from 2005 to present, regardless of era. Personally, I will NOT have a book put in new plastic and dubbed "Graded". Once Graded, ALWAYS Graded.      

[Bomber-Bob]

Avoid any book graded in the 2011 timeframe. Especially in high grade. Very loose grading era. I hope we never see that again.

[The Lions Den]

2 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Avoid any book graded in the 2011 timeframe. Especially in high grade. Very loose grading era. I hope we never see that again.

Are there any contributing factors that you can attribute to this phenomenon? I'm just curious about this---I was very busy during that time period with a number of personal issues...thanks for any information...

[Bomber-Bob]

2 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Are there any contributing factors that you can attribute to this phenomenon? I'm just curious about this---I was very busy during that time period with a number of personal issues...thanks for any information...

Lion, there were some factors I can mention. Not sure of the exact timing but Borock left and Mark Haspel was at the helm. Mark was head grader when Borock was there and he continued enforcing the tight grading as President . Suddenly Haspel leaves completely and Paul Litch takes over. That's when the grading got loose, I mean really loose and 2011 was very bad to be a buyer. I've experienced enough examples to feel confident in my statement though I did not keep an archive or Journal to show you examples. I've also talked to many who agree. Even many sellers were embarrased when selling some product. I think it took the upcoming presence of the newest grading company and the return of Haspel, although part time, to get them back on track. BTW, I am specifically referring to the grading on Vintage material, I have no idea about Moderns.

Also, this was the advent of everyone starting to press. It was no longer everything going through Matt in Texas. I think a lot of these amateur pressings resulted in the memory return of creases and wrinkles, post grading, in the slab. IE, when CGC saw the books they looked much better. 

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Lion, there were some factors I can mention. Not sure of the exact timing but Borock left and Mark Haspel was at the helm. Mark was head grader when Borock was there and he continued enforcing the tight grading as President . Suddenly Haspel leaves completely and Paul Litch takes over. That's when the grading got loose, I mean really loose and 2011 was very bad to be a buyer. I've experienced enough examples to feel confident in my statement though I did not keep an archive or Journal to show you examples. I've also talked to many who agree. Even many sellers were embarrased when selling some product. I think it took the upcoming presence of the newest grading company and the return of Haspel, although part time, to get them back on track. BTW, I am specifically referring to the grading on Vintage material, I have no idea about Moderns.

Also, this was the advent of everyone starting to press. It was no longer everything going through Matt in Texas. I think a lot of these amateur pressings resulted in the memory return of creases and wrinkles, post grading, in the slab. IE, when CGC saw the books they looked much better. 

Very interesting Bob, thank you!  

[jimbo_7071]

On 8/25/2018 at 10:28 AM, Bomber-Bob said:

Avoid any book graded in the 2011 timeframe. Especially in high grade. Very loose grading era. I hope we never see that again.

The grading in 2021/2022 makes the 2011 grading look tight as ****.