CGC v CBCS v PGX 1 1

[theCapraAegagrus]

I didn't see a topic title referencing all 3 brands, so my apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam.

I'd like some feedback and opinions as to the pros and cons of each company, and how they stack up against each other (and also 'why').

My outlooks as a newer collector:

I personally love CGC because they seem to be universally cherished and respected among collectors (myself included). Aside from the scarcity of 9.9 and 10 graded books, there doesn't appear to be much in the way of disagreement with their standards. And, by that, I mean that the community, from what I've read, believes that there are more 9.9s and 10s than have actually been graded those numbers. I also love the presentation of their slabs. They just look a lot better than both competitors' products.

For CBCS, I didn't even know about their existence until the last couple of weeks, when I started lurking among these boards often. I'm certain that I've seen their name on eBay listings, but they look(ed) too much like PGX for me to understand that they were a different grading brand. I know almost nothing about them as this topic is posted.

Now, for PGX, I've seen a lot of horror stories and a lot of controversies. My very basic understanding is that a majority of collectors respect their grades as much as any anonymous seller's raw grades. I personally shy away from any listing of PGX-graded comics and would rather buy a raw. Is this just being too paranoid? Has anyone here personally bought a PGX 10 and had it graded Gem Mint by CGC?

Again, apologies if this discussion has been beaten to death, but I'd like some well-informed experiences and opinions. Anything to help make me a more well-informed collector. Thanks!

[I like pie]

6 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

so my apologies 

I forgive you.

Quick summary:

Slab via PGX if you have a restored book and want to trick people.

Slab CBCS if you want to save a couple bucks, have 6 months to wait or no one witnessed your books signature.

Slab via CGC for best $$$ return but Newton Rings suck and they refuse to address the issue.

All logic points to keeping books in mylar

[theCapraAegagrus]

8 minutes ago, I like pie said:

I forgive you.

Quick summary:

Slab via PGX if you have a restored book and want to trick people.

Slab CBCS if you want to save a couple bucks, have 6 months to wait or no one witnessed your books signature.

Slab via CGC for best $$$ return but Newton Rings suck and they refuse to address the issue.

All logic points to keeping books in mylar

Can you elaborate on these, please?

Are you saying that CBCS' turnaround time is 6 months, and they'll mark your book "Signature Series" without validating it?

When did Newton Rings start becoming a problem with CGC? Or has this always been a potential problem?

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

4 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

When did Newton Rings start becoming a problem with CGC? Or has this always been a potential problem?

 Once upon a time.....

Just kidding. There are  few threads about the subject,  including a bit down the list from your thread on the first page. The best advice I have is read up on that ans any others, and you can have the basis to form an opinion that may be of more value than anything else. I note you signed up in August last year. You may have just missed references to Newton Rings during that time. 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

52 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

apologies if this discussion has been beaten to death

Welcome to the Boards!

[1Cool]

CGC = Lexus (Great product - Great re-sale - Great Customer Service)

CBCS - Hyundai (Just Fine product -  Ok Resale - Good Customer Service)

PGX - Ford Pinto - Not a good idea to buy

[MustEatBrains]

Between this and what's going on in the newbie section, it's gearing up to be an extra special Friday.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

CBCS is a disaster. They were thoroughly and completely unprepared for primetime, as some of those involved have noted, and there's no one in charge who knows what they're doing, or how to deal with customers. Their message board...their public face...is a disaster, filled with people who know little to nothing about comics, run by people who know little to nothing about comics, and who don't know how to deal with criticism other than silencing it, and then using that platform to lie about it, because, after all, you can't respond. It's not much better than your average comics speculation blog.

It has been documented that their cases can be opened AND CLOSED AGAIN without showing any evidence of tampering, which they attempted to resolve by extending the "heat seal" on their inner well a bit longer.

Their "witnessed signature program", as ILP mentioned above, is a joke, with "people in charge" offering to "yellow label" books for people they didn't know, merely because those people were associated with other people they did know...like the bouncer saying "oh, you're with Biebs? Come right on in!" when they should be the guardian of the integrity of the program with their lives.

They decided to distinguish between "newsstand" and "Direct" market versions for 70s, 80s, and 90s books...which is great...but then decided to stop at the totally arbitrary year 2000, which means every newsstand book after that...the most critical for such a distinction...was not included...which makes no sense whatsoever.

Their "head presser" made a video showing an Avengers #4 in which he rotated, on a table, the book 360 degrees...which made collective comicdom cringe, thinking about the potential for scuffing and abrasions. You never, ever allow a comic to rub against any surface. Even backing boards will eventually rub off ink given enough time and movement. 

They have no census, despite repeated calls for four years for one...I sadly suspect they haven't kept records to establish one.

And, as others have said, there's been massive infighting, which is no surprise.

Maybe Beckett can save them...maybe. We'll see. They had the good will and support of perhaps the entire graded comics community behind them when they opened in 2014, and they completely and totally squandered it.

CGC, for all its flaws, is the only legitimate third party grader in the hobby at the moment. And that's really sad, because competition...legitimate competition...makes everyone better.

[Junkdrawer]

4 out 5 comic book flippers recommend CGC over all other grading companies.

[aszumilo]

10 minutes ago, Junkdrawer said:

4 out 5 comic book flippers recommend CGC over all other grading companies.

The 5th one lives in Oregon?

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, aszumilo said:

11 minutes ago, Junkdrawer said:

4 out 5 comic book flippers recommend CGC over all other grading companies.

The 5th one lives in Oregon?

ZZZZZZZZZING!

[theCapraAegagrus]

31 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

CBCS is a disaster. They were thoroughly and completely unprepared for primetime, as some of those involved have noted, and there's no one in charge who knows what they're doing, or how to deal with customers. Their message board...their public face...is a disaster, filled with people who know little to nothing about comics, run by people who know little to nothing about comics, and who don't know how to deal with criticism other than silencing it, and then using that platform to lie about it, because, after all, you can't respond. It's not much better than your average comics speculation blog.

It has been documented that their cases can be opened AND CLOSED AGAIN without showing any evidence of tampering, which they attempted to resolve by extending the "heat seal" on their inner well a bit longer.

Their "witnessed signature program", as ILP mentioned above, is a joke, with "people in charge" offering to "yellow label" books for people they didn't know, merely because those people were associated with other people they did know...like the bouncer saying "oh, you're with Biebs? Come right on in!" when they should be the guardian of the integrity of the program with their lives.

They decided to distinguish between "newsstand" and "Direct" market versions for 70s, 80s, and 90s books...which is great...but then decided to stop at the totally arbitrary year 2000, which means every newsstand book after that...the most critical for such a distinction...was not included...which makes no sense whatsoever.

Their "head presser" made a video showing an Avengers #4 in which he rotated, on a table, the book 360 degrees...which made collective comicdom cringe, thinking about the potential for scuffing and abrasions. You never, ever allow a comic to rub against any surface. Even backing boards will eventually rub off ink given enough time and movement. 

They have no census, despite repeated calls for four years for one...I sadly suspect they haven't kept records to establish one.

And, as others have said, there's been massive infighting, which is no surprise.

Maybe Beckett can save them...maybe. We'll see. They had the good will and support of perhaps the entire graded comics community behind them when they opened in 2014, and they completely and totally squandered it.

CGC, for all its flaws, is the only legitimate third party grader in the hobby at the moment. And that's really sad, because competition...legitimate competition...makes everyone better.

This is a LOT of good information. Thanks!

[Bobbyusc]

I can just comment on my own personal experience on PGX vs CGC.  I have in the past been tempted to purchase a PGX book because the price has been so low compared to CGC.  Multiple times, not just once or twice, I have proceeded to remove these books and regrade them with CGC (I like all my books to be consistant).  Not only did the grades drop at least 2 points on all the books, which I did expect, but I have had multiple books come back restored or missing pages, cutouts etc.  I can maybe understand missing slight restoration, but to miss pages are missing from a book is egregious.  This should not happen from a "professional" company.  In each case, I would have been better of financially just to have bought the book from CGC originally.  PGX is completely buyer beware. 

[Logan510]

48 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

This is a LOT of good information. Thanks!

It’s a lot of information, this is true. But said member was also banned on their forums and has been quite outspoken about it since that time.

I think it’s important to be fair and balanced.

[theCapraAegagrus]

3 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

It’s a lot of information, this is true. But said member was also banned on their forums and has been quite outspoken about it since that time.

I think it’s important to be fair and balanced.

Ah, thanks. Also good information. This is why I'd like to get as much feedback as possible. I understand it's a CGC board, but I'd like to think that we're all collecting in the same vein, and not just CGC fanboys here.

[1Cool]

Not long ago this thread would have gone poof within a couple hours for just mentioning the other guys and especially talking about the differences.  How times have changed.

[JollyComics]

3 hours ago, 1Cool said:

CGC = Lexus (Great product - Great re-sale - Great Customer Service)

CBCS - Hyundai (Just Fine product -  Ok Resale - Good Customer Service)

PGX - Ford Pinto - Not a good idea to buy

CGC = Lexus (same as usual)

CBCS = 1970's to 1980's Ford car (any model)

PGX = Yugo

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

28 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

It’s a lot of information, this is true. But said member was also banned on their forums and has been quite outspoken about it since that time.

I think it’s important to be fair and balanced.

I may be interpreting incorrectly... are you stating that RMA was banned (I don't know one way or another), and accordingly anything he posts on the subject is suspect, and therefore not "fair and balanced".....implying lack of honesty and integrity and valid opinion concerning the OP question ('s)? 

Or, is this your personal comment that he is suspect, based on any Board feud you have....real or imagined, because I don't know (or care), which if it is, makes your observations concerning his integrity and honesty a bit higher level of suspect.

That would be very disappointing. I have not read any post by RMA that is intentionally spiteful for the purpose of fabrication and intentionally disparaging a manufacturer without cause. 

i hope you are not stating your opinion for personal reasons of differences with RMA having noting to do with the subject.

I am not qualified to comment on the business entity or their quality and/or lack thereof, but I would certainly be interested in your opinion.

[theCapraAegagrus]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Mcknowitall said:

I may be interpreting incorrectly... are you stating that RMA was banned (I don't know one way or another), and accordingly anything he posts on the subject is suspect, and therefore not "fair and balanced".....implying lack of honesty and integrity and valid opinion concerning the OP question ('s)? 

Or, is this your personal comment that he is suspect, based on any Board feud you have....real or imagined, because I don't know (or care), which if it is, makes your observations concerning his integrity and honesty a bit higher level of suspect.

That would be very disappointing. I have not read any post by RMA that is intentionally spiteful for the purpose of fabrication and intentionally disparaging a manufacturer without cause. 

i hope you are not stating your opinion for personal reasons of differences with RMA having noting to do with the subject.

I am not qualified to comment on the business entity or their quality and/or lack thereof, but I would certainly be interested in your opinion.

Let's not make this personal, please. I want to keep this on the topic of all 3 brands. Both RMA's and Logan's comments are valid. I may have to temper my inference of RMA's comments based on the fact that he was banned from their forums. That doesn't make his opinion any less valid, but I now understand that they could be manufactured or fabricated based on a potential spite factor. Other users' feedback will help me determine if his opinion is legitimate or vengeful.

Edited August 31, 2018 by TwoPiece

[Logan510]

10 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Let's not make this personal, please. I want to keep this on the topic of all 3 brands. Both RMA's and Logan's comments are valid. I may have to temper my inference of RMA's comments based on the fact that he was banned from their forums. That doesn't make his opinion any less valid, but I now understand that they could be manufactured or fabricated based on a potential spite factor. Other users' feedback will help me determine if his opinion is legitimate or vengeful.

I’m not saying all his opinions are invalidated because he was banned from their forums. I will say that I’ve noticed that since the banning he has been more vocal in his criticism of the other company and it’s only human nature to be a little bitter when something like that happens.