What is the true first appearance of Captain Marvel part 2
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On 9/2/2018 at 4:19 PM, divad said:

I don't see the words "first" or "appearance" anywhere in those notes . . . :grin:

 

You don't need to see "first appearance" on the notes. The fact is, that this book does pre-date Marvel Graphic Novel #4, which makes it the first appearance of The New Mutants anywhere. Yes, I get it, it's not a comic book. :makepoint:  But at least the cover and interior art was drawn by it's co-creator Bob McLeod. :grin:

 

 

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11 hours ago, mr_highgrade said:

You don't need to see "first appearance" on the notes. The fact is, that this book does pre-date Marvel Graphic Novel #4, which makes it the first appearance of The New Mutants anywhere. Yes, I get it, it's not a comic book. :makepoint:  But at least the cover and interior art was drawn by it's co-creator Bob McLeod. :grin:

 

 

I'm down with that. I was making light of CGC's artful reluctance to make the label statement.:foryou:

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17 hours ago, divad said:

I don't necessarily consider you an authority either. :foryou:

All good, never claimed to be!

I don't need to be an authority, I just use my eyes!

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1 hour ago, MrWeen said:

I don't need to be an authority, I just use my eyes!

What do your eyes tell you about the definition of the word "preview"? hm

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Not to get caught up in the Summer of Spider Preview versus Avenging Spider discussion...but as far as modern go, is there any reason why 2014 Captain Marvel #1 would be equal to or better than 2012 Captain Marvel #1?  Or, is 2012 #1 similar to ASM #1 and Avenging Spider similar to AF15 (in general terms)?  

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On 9/5/2018 at 1:14 AM, mr_highgrade said:

You don't need to see "first appearance" on the notes. The fact is, that this book does pre-date Marvel Graphic Novel #4, which makes it the first appearance of The New Mutants anywhere. Yes, I get it, it's not a comic book. :makepoint:  But at least the cover and interior art was drawn by it's co-creator Bob McLeod. :grin:

 

 

It might be the earliest printed depiction of the New Mutants as a team, but it's not an "appearance" in the sense that has been popularly accepted by the comic-collecting community pretty much since collecting was a thing

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23 hours ago, valiantman said:

What do your eyes tell you about the definition of the word "preview"? hm

Is Foom 15 a preview?

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8 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

It might be the earliest printed depiction of the New Mutants as a team, but it's not an "appearance" in the sense that has been popularly accepted by the comic-collecting community pretty much since collecting was a thing

Yea times change man and they are right now.  Look a "depiction " is really just another way to avoid saying appearance.  They appear on the cover and inside that book. 

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10 minutes ago, MrWeen said:

Yea times change man and they are right now.  Look a "depiction " is really just another way to avoid saying appearance.  They appear on the cover and inside that book. 

No, it's not, except by people looking to make a buck off of someone that doesn't know any better. Eliminate those people, and pretty much every collector agrees that an appearance means in a creative context, rather than a marketing or editorial one.

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3 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:
3 hours ago, MrWeen said:

Yea times change man and they are right now.  Look a "depiction " is really just another way to avoid saying appearance.  They appear on the cover and inside that book. 

No, it's not, except by people looking to make a buck off of someone that doesn't know any better. Eliminate those people, and pretty much every collector agrees that an appearance means in a creative context, rather than a marketing or editorial one.

Agreed.

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This is the first appearance of Luke Skywalker:

Despite the fact that his image had appeared countless times prior to the release of this movie in May of 1977.

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On 9/6/2018 at 5:34 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

No, it's not, except by people looking to make a buck off of someone that doesn't know any better. Eliminate those people, and pretty much every collector agrees that an appearance means in a creative context, rather than a marketing or editorial one.

Convenient to eliminate people why buy comics.  Aren't most of you sellers?   You are making a lot of assumptions.  Maybe the guy wants every book the character appears in or maybe she agrees with me because times have changed.  You are assuming ALL buyers care about the first within the story.  I am sorry but those days are gone.  If we are talking selling the ncovers rule and there is nothing more nefarious than store variant sellers and other ways dealers and companies produce manufactured collectibles!

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On 9/6/2018 at 9:23 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

This is the first appearance of Luke Skywalker:

Despite the fact that his image had appeared countless times prior to the release of this movie in May of 1977.

Cute but I think we are talking comics!

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15 minutes ago, MrWeen said:

Cute but I think we are talking comics!

There's a lot of online previews these days.  Like Lobo's daughter was shown at Wondercon in March.  Is that her first appearance?

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33 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

There's a lot of online previews these days.  Like Lobo's daughter was shown at Wondercon in March.  Is that her first appearance?

If you can slab it........ (thumbsu

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On 9/13/2018 at 4:08 PM, MrWeen said:

Convenient to eliminate people why buy comics.  Aren't most of you sellers?   You are making a lot of assumptions.  Maybe the guy wants every book the character appears in or maybe she agrees with me because times have changed.  You are assuming ALL buyers care about the first within the story.  I am sorry but those days are gone.  If we are talking selling the ncovers rule and there is nothing more nefarious than store variant sellers and other ways dealers and companies produce manufactured collectibles!

No, I am not assuming that all buyers care about the first appearance. I acknowledge that there are many buyers who like to purchase previews, advertisements, editorials, etc., that are published before the first appearance of a character in a storyline. And I have no problem with that. All the more power to them, if that's what they like. (Even better if I have copies to sell them.) But that does not change the fact that in the vernacular of comic collecting, a "first appearance" means in the context of a story. 

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On 9/6/2018 at 2:21 PM, MrWeen said:

Yea times change man and they are right now.  Look a "depiction " is really just another way to avoid saying appearance.  They appear on the cover and inside that book. 

"First Appearance" means first story appearance of a character in a comic book.   Action 1 is the "first appearance" of Superman.

"First appearance in print" means a non-story first appearance of a character, usually in a house ad.  More Fun 31 is the "first appearance in print" of Superman.  

Good luck arguing that More Fun 31 is the "first appearance" of Superman. 

It's not. 

It is a cool historical item that has enhanced value because of the house ad.  And that appears to be what you are missing.  You can enhance the value of an item by pointing out it is the "first appearance in print" of a character without doing violence to the normal terms used by the comic collecting community (thereby making you look like a fool).  I'd suggest you hype all you want, but do so in a way that doesn't reflect poorly on your common sense.

Other useful terms to know "first full appearance" (Hulk 181); "cameo" (Hulk 180); and "first cover appearance" (Vacation Parade 2 for Uncle Scrooge).

P.S. Another reason "first appearance" does not mean, in the parlance of comic collectors, the "first appearance" ever in any medium is the simple reason that many "first appearances" in comic collecting parlance are of characters who previously appeared in books (James Bond), comic strips (Prince Valiant), magazines/pulps (Tarzan), tv (Jetsons), radio (Lone Ranger), cartoons (Harley Quinn), and movies (Star Wars).  Your twisted interpretation will never gain traction because it is anathema to how comic collectors have been using these terms for 60 years or more.

The battle was lost a long time ago with MF 31/Action 1,  Hulk 180/181, and many others.  For example, Hulk 180 was originally the more valuable book because it was the first appearance.  But, collectors thought Hulk 181 was the cooler book, having more Wolverine and Wolverine on the cover, and it became the more valuable book.  This confused some folks, and they started calling Hulk 181 the "first appearance" because they thought that was the only way to justify the higher price.  But, the comic collecting community pushed back and Hulk 180 is widely recognized as the "first appearance," albeit most view it as the lesser desirable book.  If those who sought to re-define "first appearance" lost that battle, ain't no way you'll ever get the comic collecting community to view a fanzine, a previews Xerox, a poster insert in the CBG, or other preview advertising as the "first appearance" of a character.  At most, they will only be the "first appearance in print."  

Sorry.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by sfcityduck

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On 9/13/2018 at 2:03 PM, Jaydee said:

Here we go Again

giphy.gif

 

The Dude abides! :grin:

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