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The decline sales of Miracleman (Eclipse)
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45 posts in this topic

I sold all of my last miracleman books two years ago. It was a good sale. I didn't think about the current sales of Miracleman until now.

I never saw the decline sales of those Miracleman books even #1, #15 and #24 and was shocked to see so many NM books selling so low on eBay.  I sold $404 for #15 CGC 9.8, #145 for #1 cgc 9.8 and $85 for #24 CGC 9.6 for $85 distinctively so those books are much more than 50% less of those 2016 prices today.

What happened?

Edited by JollyComics
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There was a surge in Miracleman interest a few years ago when Marvel started republishing the original run, along with the promise of finally publishing Gaiman's final unpublished issues. Those issues are STILL not published and fan apathy has set in. It's unfortunate because I was excited about reading those final issues and getting the chance to buy a nice omnibus collection of the entire series.

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Alan Moore happened. He refused to let Marvel use his name on the Miracleman reprints and hardcovers and that hurt sales - overall. People don't know who "The Original Writer" was if it's not spelled out for them and it wasn't the huge seller than we all thought it would be. Most newer readers love it when they read it, but it's hard to get them into the book when it's writer is "The Original Writer." It just doesn't have the same appeal as Alan Moore's Swamp Thing or Alan Moore's Watchmen. See what I mean: "The Original Writer's" Miracleman. Yeah, it was a letdown for me and I've collected Miracleman since the series was being published by Eclipse.

Marvel pumped those issues out with variant covers that were really very lackluster compared to the original covers -- and they bagged each issue. No new reader could flip through them at the comic shop and see how great they were. I heard from comic shop owners who fussed over the bagging of the Marvel reprints. The price of each issue was also a hinderance to getting new readers to pick up a copy.

I also think it hurt that the prices of the back issue trade paperbacks and hardcovers went down when Marvel announced their reprints. Those Eclipse volumes sold high for years because there was always a buzz around them.

No longer was the story only to be found in the Eclipse volumes, now it was going to be found in the Marvel hardcovers that were cheaper and easier to find. At one point, the original Eclipse hardcovers were selling in the thousands of dollars and now I've seen them go really cheap on eBay.

Fan apathy is also to blame. The fact that Marvel still hasn't finished the Gaiman run has hurt newer sales because no one can finish the story. New readers want a complete story. I wanted it in the omnibus format so I could have it all under one cover

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Without Alan Moore's name that cast the spelling doom for Marvel's selling of Miracleman books.  I used to love reading Marvel's runs of Battlestar Galactica, Micronauts. Howard the Duck and other TV product related comic books in 70's and 80's (some into early 90's) until Marvel abandoned them and allowed other publishers took over them . Only Conan was brought back to Marvel after 15 years with Dark Horse that lost the license to Disney owned Marvel company. I really hope that Marvel will abandon Miracleman soon.

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They had to have known that Alan Moore was not going to cooperate prior to acquiring the rights. It is a shame that they seem to have had a horrible strategy from the beginning rather than trying to just get the unpublished stuff out there. A lot of resources used to not get anywhere.

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1 hour ago, JollyComics said:

Without Alan Moore's name that cast the spelling doom for Marvel's selling of Miracleman books.  I used to love reading Marvel's runs of Battlestar Galactica, Micronauts. Howard the Duck and other TV product related comic books in 70's and 80's (some into early 90's) until Marvel abandoned them and allowed other publishers took over them . Only Conan was brought back to Marvel after 15 years with Dark Horse that lost the license to Disney owned Marvel company. I really hope that Marvel will abandon Miracleman soon.

Howard the Duck was never a "TV product-related comic book". It was and still is owned and published by Marvel.

Battlestar Galactica lasted 23 issues at Marvel and that was longer than the show - including Battlestar 1980. No one had or wanted Battlestar Galactica until the 1990s when Rob Liefeld picked it up under Maximum Press. Since then, it's bounced around and had trouble maintaining a solid readership. Micronauts is, at best, a mediocre-selling comic even today. They can't even use the Marvel-created characters, which many Micronauts fans loved.

And, I'm not sure why you'd want Miracleman to leave Marvel. That makes no sense at all. Should it go back to the days when NO PUBLISHER had it? Yeah, that'd make it all better. Right.

Moore stipulated that the work could be reprinted so as to allow the artists and other creators to profit from it -- but it would be printed without his name on it. Marvel probably had no choice in the matter to get the book back into print. I don't fault them for Moore not being amenable to his name being on the book. That's all his fault.

 

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1 hour ago, Michael Browning said:

Howard the Duck was never a "TV product-related comic book". It was and still is owned and published by Marvel.

Battlestar Galactica lasted 23 issues at Marvel and that was longer than the show - including Battlestar 1980. No one had or wanted Battlestar Galactica until the 1990s when Rob Liefeld picked it up under Maximum Press. Since then, it's bounced around and had trouble maintaining a solid readership. Micronauts is, at best, a mediocre-selling comic even today. They can't even use the Marvel-created characters, which many Micronauts fans loved.

And, I'm not sure why you'd want Miracleman to leave Marvel. That makes no sense at all. Should it go back to the days when NO PUBLISHER had it? Yeah, that'd make it all better. Right.

Moore stipulated that the work could be reprinted so as to allow the artists and other creators to profit from it -- but it would be printed without his name on it. Marvel probably had no choice in the matter to get the book back into print. I don't fault them for Moore not being amenable to his name being on the book. That's all his fault.

 

I just found a full set of Miracleman in my collection. Probably I will wait to sell it in better time. Actually, Howard the Duck was in the movie and will have a reboot.

Edited by JollyComics
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This is an extremely timely thread!

I was at Dragon*Con yesterday and asked to see a MM15 on a dealer's wall. It was somewhere around a 9.0-9.4 and priced at $75.

I asked if he could go lower and he answered in the negative.

When I got home I looked that book up and was shocked by how much it had dropped. NMs are barely breaking $100!

A few minutes later, I found that this thread had been started a couple hours earlier. For the record, I believe in MM15 and it's place as a Copper key. 'Once hot, now not, now hot again' is part of the natural back issue cycle. Just look at McFarlane books at this point in time.

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24 minutes ago, camera73 said:

This is an extremely timely thread!

I was at Dragon*Con yesterday and asked to see a MM15 on a dealer's wall. It was somewhere around a 9.0-9.4 and priced at $75.

I asked if he could go lower and he answered in the negative.

When I got home I looked that book up and was shocked by how much it had dropped. NMs are barely breaking $100!

A few minutes later, I found that this thread had been started a couple hours earlier. For the record, I believe in MM15 and it's place as a Copper key. 'Once hot, now not, now hot again' is part of the natural back issue cycle. Just look at McFarlane books at this point in time.

You can find them cheaper on eBay@Michael Browning

I can't blame Alan Moore for refusing to put his name on any movies that disrespected his works but his decision hurt us.

Edited by JollyComics
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14 minutes ago, JollyComics said:

You can find them cheaper on eBay@Michael Browning

I can't blame Alan Moore for refusing to put his name on any movies that disrespected his works but his decision hurt us.

Miracleman is NOT a movie. It's a comic. Two different things and two entirely different situations, since the comics are reprinted from the originals. The movies were adapted from Moore's works, so that leaves them open to interpretation by a director, movie studio, writers, etc.

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56 minutes ago, JollyComics said:

I just found a full set of Miracleman in my collection. Probably I will wait to sell it in better time. Actually, Howard the Duck was in the movie and will have a reboot.

Howard the Duck was a comic LONG before it was ever a movie. You should look it up. It's on the internet.

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5 hours ago, Michael Browning said:

Alan Moore happened. He refused to let Marvel use his name on the Miracleman reprints and hardcovers and that hurt sales

Give me a break. The things Marvel did (especially the ridiculous cover prices) are what hurt sales. It's not like people don't know who wrote the early issues or stores can't tell the few people who don't know.

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1 hour ago, Michael Browning said:

Miracleman is NOT a movie. It's a comic. Two different things and two entirely different situations, since the comics are reprinted from the originals. The movies were adapted from Moore's works, so that leaves them open to interpretation by a director, movie studio, writers, etc.

Beside the originals and reprints, Alan Moore didn't wish his name on both Watchman and V for Vendetta because he said that he doesn't own them. That is what he said. He turned his back on Hollywood rich people included Marvel. That was his choice. AFTER Watchman and V for Vendetta movies, I sold all Watchmen and V for Vendetta comic books before the sales were plummeting. I did same thing with Alan Moore's Swamp Thing run three years ago except House of Secrets #92. I guessed it was a stroke of luck.

Believe it or not, the time flied by. Marvel bought Miracleman nearly ten years ago - the Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman 80 million Marvelman movie that never was that. It didn't impact the value of original Eclipse Miracleman books until now. Why 10 years later while the sales were stable?

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1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

Give me a break. The things Marvel did (especially the ridiculous cover prices) are what hurt sales. It's not like people don't know who wrote the early issues or stores can't tell the few people who don't know.

Sorry about that. Thanks for the explanation.

Edited by JollyComics
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I think there was a lot of value when it was difficult to complete the full run and be able to read the story.  Which also added a lot of value to the trade paperbacks.  Supply and demand.  Now that the story is readily available to read, one does not need to spend $500 for a single trade paperback.

I am working to complete the full run of original edition comics in CGC 9.0 or higher and NOT spend any more than $40 (including shipping) per issue.  I am doing very well with a little over 60% complete and have a 9.4 copy of #15.

One thing that does bother me about my newly printed hardcover editions is that certain "bad" language was changed from the original.  I didn't mind the re-coloring so much.

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It's nice that the story is so accessible again. Moore's brilliance was in taking two dimensional characters and making them live and breathe. Swamp Thing, Marvelman, Supreme....all masterpieces, really. When you read #1-16, you get a real sense of the story Moore wanted to tell, and the consequences of the events of issue #2 aren't felt until many years, and many issues, later. The story that was issue #2...which appeared in, I think Warrior #4-6...was published in 1982-83. MM #15, the resolution to that story, wasn't published until 1988. 

But boy, was it worth the wait. 

In a way, I'm glad the originals aren't so costly anymore, and that more people have access to one of the best stories of the 80s and 90s...if only they would finish it. It's only been 25 years.

 

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23 hours ago, Michael Browning said:

Marvel pumped those issues out with variant covers that were really very lackluster compared to the original covers -- and they bagged each issue. No new reader could flip through them at the comic shop and see how great they were. I heard from comic shop owners who fussed over the bagging of the Marvel reprints. The price of each issue was also a hinderance to getting new readers to pick up a copy.

There were a lot of problems with how Marvel handled the relaunch of Miracleman, but I think one of the most egregious was that they started with high-priced reprints of 1950s era Marvelman reprints. To me, it makes no sense to try to draw readers into what is often regarded as one of the best-written series of all time by pushing out expensive reprints of dated, mediocre and subpar stories. I think they poisoned the well before the regular series even began.

And then they relaunched with a new #1 midway through the series...

And then they cancelled that series midway through the story (again)...

Perfect recipe for a flop.

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2 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

The only thing that seem to have climbed recently was Warrior #1. But that obviously has V in it as well 

In my experience, many of these Warrior books are tough in high grade. This is partly because they’re not only magazines, but (oversized) European magazines, which come with all the storage issues of treasury editions. Coupled with the relative “uncollected” nature of the title, and its limited distribution outside of the UK, these are tough books... but the condition issues, I think, keep average sale prices low. Truly high grade copies will pop at some point, I think, much like #1 has started to do.

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44 minutes ago, Brock said:

In my experience, many of these Warrior books are tough in high grade. This is partly because they’re not only magazines, but (oversized) European magazines, which come with all the storage issues of treasury editions. Coupled with the relative “uncollected” nature of the title, and its limited distribution outside of the UK, these are tough books... but the condition issues, I think, keep average sale prices low. Truly high grade copies will pop at some point, I think, much like #1 has started to do.

Absolutely. I am yet to see a Warrior 1 or a Deadline 1 in 9.8 

heck I would even be happy with a 9.4 at this point 

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