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Journey Into Mystery 83 CGC 5.0 Switched label??
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145 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, tabcom said:

Don't wait for eBay, cgc, legal representation, nor a congressional investigation to resolve this.

If everyone reading this thread doxed bargainhuntersstore via eBay messaging, he would get scared and withdrawal from his unethical business practices.

With respects to his customers, the old saying goes, 'you can't con an honest man.'

In otherwords, the buyers got what the deserved.

no no no dont give him a heads up let the investigation unfold.

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1 hour ago, kav said:

no no no dont give him a heads up let the investigation unfold.

What investigation? What do you realistically think is going to happen?

i'm skeptical CGC has a precedent in place to resolve this.

Ultimately, it has to be a buyer of one of his counterfeit auctions that must initiate a legal investigation.

 

What I'm suggesting is that the next time he lists an item that appears to be tampered with,

someone should post it here before bidding is closed and EVERYONE report it as a fraudulent listing. 

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40 minutes ago, tabcom said:

Ultimately, it has to be a buyer of one of his counterfeit auctions that must initiate a legal investigation.

This.

And if none of the buyers are aware of the deception perpetrated upon them, if CGC's legal team, pursuant to doing their own investigation, can wrangle the identity of the buyers through legal channels with ebay and paypal, that would be a good start.

A consistent pattern of tampering, then mail fraud could then be established.

That cooperation with ebay, and especially paypal, would show not only the buyers, but the vendors that he bought the lesser grade replacements for the switch, a slam dunk in any case of mail fraud like this.

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12 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Where he's jimmying them open from, it sure does point to tampering. He's prying from the side near the top, laterally dead-centered to the label. There's no random aspect to the damaged consistent location.

Sure, when every cgc case he has has the same damage in the same location it’s clearly fraud.  If I was to come across just one of these books elsewhere I might be suspicious but i could also chalk the damage up to the case being damage by accident.  I’ve damaged a few cases over the years.

When I look at the sellers images it also looks like the label isn’t sitting correctly in the case.  He’s slid them in but they appear to be slightly curled

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I disagree. Legal representation would pose a far greater threat than a bunch of comic nerds messaging through eBay. All they will do is go underground and pop up again in some other form.

With a legal paper trail, recourse gets easier.

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16 minutes ago, Junkdrawer said:

His fingerprints are likely all over the inner portion of the slab where it would prove him flat out guilty. Send one to the lab to catch him. 

His fingerprints aren't necessary.

A financial trail of his purchases + his sales will do.

It will also show where the book went that was switched out to be replaced with the lesser grade copy.

It's just a question of connecting the dots once that raw data is acquired.

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16 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

Doesn't CGC currently capture images of each book they grade?  If so comparing stored images with the images provided by the seller for each bar code would help to establish if these  labels have been swapped - and yes, clearly they have and clearly this seller is a POS. 

If they don't capture images of each book perhaps they should, at least for books of a certain value threshold 

From what I recall, CGC usually only scans selective images of slabbed books for their own personal gallery. But like JJ said, Heritage is probably the best resource for something like this... (thumbsu

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I was watching an auction he had listed on a spiderman 129. It ended yesterday for over $2300. He had cracked it open at the bottom left rear of the case.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-Man-129-CGC-NM-9-2-1st-Punisher-Appearance-white-pages-/173580801931?hash=item286a38d78b%3Ag%3AFpcAAOSwnhJbvUK2&nma=true&si=jJZ6R49vnU51eWIYhZqprexVNg4%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Edited by Lamborghinikid
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49 minutes ago, Lamborghinikid said:

That's on the list I made on page 3 or 4 of this thread. He had already sold this once before. The buyer must have taken a look at it and thought, "What am I paying $2300 for? A $750 book?" and sent it right the heck back. All of that "as is" lingo, when a listing pertains to a third party graded book, is useless as far as paypal and ebay are concerned. A buyer can still open and win a claim if the item is not as described, regardless of the language in the listing explaining that there's "no returns".

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4 hours ago, tabcom said:

What investigation? What do you realistically think is going to happen?

i'm skeptical CGC has a precedent in place to resolve this.

Ultimately, it has to be a buyer of one of his counterfeit auctions that must initiate a legal investigation.

 

What I'm suggesting is that the next time he lists an item that appears to be tampered with,

someone should post it here before bidding is closed and EVERYONE report it as a fraudulent listing. 

He is apparently using CGC labels fraudulently.  I'm no lawyer but I believe CGC can do something about this, and also gather evidence perhaps purchasing books from victims to refer to law enforcement and Federal investigators as well as preparing their own lawsuit.  There appear to be multiple crimes here.  

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2 hours ago, Lamborghinikid said:

It pays to spend a bit more and buy from Ha,CL, CC etc..ebay is and will always be..a risk, and chance..shocking

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1 hour ago, kav said:

He is apparently using CGC labels fraudulently.  I'm no lawyer but I believe CGC can do something about this, and also gather evidence perhaps purchasing books from victims to refer to law enforcement and Federal investigators as well as preparing their own lawsuit.  There appear to be multiple crimes here.  

The slab and label, the whole CGC shebang; their rep, their buyer confidence, their brand, their intellectual property; is being used by this person to aid and abet his criminal conduct, which is interstate mail-fraud. He is using CGC's product as a shill for fraud, his buyers not only purchasing "a comic", but also, in choosing to buy the brand, CGC, is purchasing the confidence in that brand erroneously, since the CGC package has been tampered with. Each one of these sales constitutes a separate Federal crime, and the dollar value over the 2 months, let alone the duration of his sales using this business model, will represent enough to make a "Federal case" out of it.

God help PGX if this person turns out to be PGX, or an associate of PGX, because then it's not simply the case of some random thief, trying to get over. It would be a case of a direct competitor doing the tampering/fraud, and the infringement of CGC's business, That would undoubtedly turn out the lights in PGX's garage once and for all if that's the case.

Edited by James J Johnson
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8 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

The slab and label, the whole CGC shebang; their rep, their buyer confidence, their brand, their intellectual property; is being used by this person to aid and abet his criminal conduct, which is interstate mail-fraud. He is using CGC's product as a shill for fraud, his buyers not only purchasing "a comic", but also, in choosing to buy the brand, CGC, is purchasing the confidence in that brand erroneously, since the CGC package has been tampered with. Each one of these sales constitutes a separate Federal crime, and the dollar value over the 2 months, let alone the duration of his sales using this business model, will represent enough to make a "Federal case" out of it.

God help PGX if this person turns out to be PGX, or an associate of PGX, because then it's not simply the case of some random thief, trying to get over. It would be a case of a direct competitor doing the tampering/fraud, and the infringement of CGC's business, That would undoubtedly turn out the lights in PGX's garage once and for all if that's the case.

Isn't this similar to the law the United States, selling fake bags is illegal under the federal trademark law.

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5 minutes ago, kav said:

Isn't this similar to the law the United States, selling fake bags is illegal under the federal trademark law.

It's a step beyond. You're not only selling a knock off, but if each bag was supposed to come with an alligator wallet inside, it's like getting a vinyl wallet instead sealed inside.

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Has anybody been able to find any of these CGC labels in the previously sold sections of the major auction houses? 

We could then compare the legitimately graded book (with it's CGC serial number) to the suspects scan with the same CGC serial number and see if the books are the same.  This would offer solid proof that his is switching books (which I believe he is).

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17 minutes ago, Domo Arigato said:

Has anybody been able to find any of these CGC labels in the previously sold sections of the major auction houses? 

I'm working on it in earnest this weekend. I know the books pretty well from memory, studied and remember their specific and unique set of flaws, which should save time in the hunt.

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