The Ongoing eBay Direct to Newsstand For Sale Ratio Project. 3 3

[valiantman]

11 hours ago, Brock said:

This seems right to me... I was in Toronto on the day of release. Shortl6bafter noon, I visited Dragon Lady Comics nad picked two copies off th3rack, but because I was literally on the way to the Silver Snail, I put them back thinking I would pick them up as part of a larger purchase at the second store.

Ten minutes later, I found the Snail was sold out, nad returned to Dragon Lady... which was also sold out. That meant waiting nervously for two weeks in the hopes of getting newsstand copies when they were released, and then buying up every copy I could find.

The newstands were definitely wiped clean within a day or two...

That's going to be a big factor going forward.  Books that show up in the back issue market like this one are skewed due to newsstand returns being tiny.  We will probably be able to identify those easily once the counts are more detailed than this handful of examples.

[fastballspecial]

On 12/25/2018 at 5:06 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Peter David was a sales manager for the Direct market for Marvel in the early 80s, before he started selling stories. I wonder if he would remember (and be willing to share) information about distribution. Something to ask him about at a con.

I think he would. Ask him about the temper tantrum John Byrne threw over Alpha Flight 12 while you are at it. I would love
to hear that story from him.

 

[fastballspecial]

My first store in the early 80s. They had a spinner rack of only DC and Marvel books. I would walk a block at lunch while I was
working for my family cutting grass. I think its the reason I know very little about many 80s independents because they didn't have 
any. The owner passed away a few years ago and it closed after 60 years about 10 years ago when a Walmart came in. I still drive
by there when I pass thru the town just for the good memories. 

I believe this is how many of us started that or 7-11s.

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by fastballspecial

[fastballspecial]

On 1/25/2019 at 2:45 PM, valiantman said:

Since there's been no discussion, I'll assume no one cares. 

But, it should be very obvious that the percentage of newsstand available on eBay is remaining very consistent.  The only surprise in the data that I can see is that Amazing Spider-Man #252 had far more newsstand than should be expected in 1984.  Perhaps the book was double-shipped to newsstands or somehow the newsstand market got into the excitement of "Introducing the NEW Spider-Man" printed (and probably solicited months in advance) right on the cover and literally ordered twice (or more) their standard order. 

Yeah your data looks right. Send me that newsstand chart with arrows you use sometime. I get asked about that and Id like to just 
give them that chart pic. 

[valiantman]

4 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

Yeah your data looks right. Send me that newsstand chart with arrows you use sometime. I get asked about that and Id like to just 
give them that chart pic. 

http://valiantman.com/images/direct_newsstand.png

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 1/25/2019 at 3:25 PM, Lazyboy said:

No, it's because there were (possibly literally) no copies returned.

Yes, this. I think this was mentioned in this thread a while back. It would be the same for other insta-hot books, like Thor #337, Batman #426-429, ASM #361, Hulk #377, etc. 

I don't know if there would have been literally no copies returned, but it would have been significantly lower than normal...but, it's possible every copy printed was sold, and there were no returns continent wide for those books.

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 1/25/2019 at 12:45 PM, valiantman said:

Since there's been no discussion, I'll assume no one cares. 

But, it should be very obvious that the percentage of newsstand available on eBay is remaining very consistent.  The only surprise in the data that I can see is that Amazing Spider-Man #252 had far more newsstand than should be expected in 1984.  Perhaps the book was double-shipped to newsstands or somehow the newsstand market got into the excitement of "Introducing the NEW Spider-Man" printed (and probably solicited months in advance) right on the cover and literally ordered twice (or more) their standard order. 

What I have been able to uncover is that newsstands did not and could not place orders. An ID (Independent Distributor)/Curtis regional sales manager would place orders for their region, and newsstands simply "got what they got." There was no mechanism in place to order anything, and the only thing a newsstand could do...if it was even interested...was mention it to their distributor.

One more reason why the Direct market was such a fast success. 

[divad]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

What I have been able to uncover is that newsstands did not and could not place orders. An ID (Independent Distributor)/Curtis regional sales manager would place orders for their region, and newsstands simply "got what they got." There was no mechanism in place to order anything

This, and nor did they care. Most newsstand retailers knew who Superman and Batman were, but beyond that they were clueless. If it brought the kids in, they'd buy more candy, and better yet if they dragged their Moms along with them.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

This is a good thread. I have a newsstand related question which I hope one of you may be able to answer. The answer will have a bearing on the Newsstand vs Direct percentages for certain titles. I'm currently compiling a list of the Australian newsstand price variants for Marvel. Despite having dodgy eyes, I can spot them fairly easily on eBay because:

1. They all have a barcode UPC, being newsstand only editions
2. They do not have the 'CC' Curtis Circulation mark in the price box as their US counterparts do

To illustrate, a US newsstand ASM #341 and an Australian:

 

You can see both have a newsstand barcode UPC, and the AUS copy does not have the 'CC' lettering in the price box. So this is how I spot them easily on eBay without having to open every listing - a small blob in the price box tells me it will be a US copy when I open it up, the absence of the blob means it's an AUS copy. There are other ways to spot them too, but that one works well.

During my research, I've found a number of titles that do not have AUS copies. One of them is 'Marc Spector: Moon Knight'. The reason for the post here, is that when I see a copy on eBay with a newsstand barcode UPC, I don't see the 'CC' blob, so I open it thinking it will be an AUS copy. It never is. Look further, and you will see that there do not appear to be any 'Direct Editions' for Moon Knight between issues 8 and 28?

Take a look at these three mock ups:

The ASM #330 above has the three elements which define it as a Direct Edition - picture UPC, UK price and no 'CC' in the price box.

The ASM #330 above has the three elements which define it as a Newsstand Edition - barcode UPC, no UK price and 'CC' in the price box.

So now look at the Moon knight from the same month:

Is it a newsstand edition with a Direct Edition price box or vice versa? Which of the two elements determines it's edition type?

All issues of the title between 8 and 28 seem to have only this one edition type:

I haven't found a single copy on ebay other than those you see in the picture above. There is a similar situation going on with Alpha Flight - example below:

Is that a newsstand or a Direct Edition?

And why only one edition type for this issue?

Is this news to anyone or am I missing something obvious? I couldn't find any mention of it online. There are no AUS copies of Alpha Flight and no AUS copies of Moon Knight. Could the 'single edition' scenario be the reason?

Any thoughts appreciated 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

[Get Marwood & I]

[Lazyboy]

6 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Any thoughts appreciated

You completely missed my awesome thread in Copper, didn't you?

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

You completely missed my awesome thread in Copper, didn't you?

Yes! Thanks Lazyboy. I did indeed miss that. Will have a read now. 

[Get Marwood & I]

11 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

15 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

You completely missed my awesome thread in Copper, didn't you?

Yes! Thanks Lazyboy. I did indeed miss that. Will have a read now

Interesting stuff Lazyboy. Not sure how I missed that one. So many little unexplained oddities and quirks out there isn't there...

[Lazyboy]

3 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

So many little unexplained oddities and quirks out there isn't there...

Indeed.

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

3 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

So many little unexplained oddities and quirks out there isn't there...

Indeed.

I meant the comics! 

[wese]

I am very interested in the whole newsstand to direct ratio.

I recently picked up a newsstand collection from 2007 marvel era.

I have a copy of Wolverine Origins 10 and was curious on the rarity.

I looked at all the raw copies I could find on ebay of the regular white cover and found  39 copies of Direct Edition  and 5 copies of the Newsstand.

[fastballspecial]

From the 2007 era your books are pretty hard to find. Its not the end of it, but
man any books after about 2004 are really tough to find and tougher in high grade.

 

[Zonker]

On 1/27/2019 at 3:08 PM, valiantman said:

http://valiantman.com/images/direct_newsstand.png

http://valiantman.com/images/direct_newsstand.png

When thumbing through my copy of the Baxter series of Legion of Super-Heroes #7 (cover-dated February 1985), I came across this lettercol quote from Paul Levitz which I thought was worth preserving here.  Unlike Mile High Chuck's recollection of some long-ago conversation with Jim Shooter, this is a contemporaneous quote from someone who should know.  It certainly supports the years 1984/1985 as approximate cross over points (as indicated in valiantman's qualitative graph) since DC's rationale for publishing Legion & New Teen Titans in 2 different formats was "over half our readers" purchased from newsstands not comics shops.  

I am wondering though if the post 1984/1985 falloff in newsstand availability might be more dramatic than the hypothesized linear reduction.  I think the eBay data posted in this thread tends to support this idea, although it looks like not all years during the inflection period 1984-1987 were sampled.  By mid-1988 DC had stopped bothering to reprint Legion, Teen Titans and the Outsiders in a newsstand-friendly format, suggesting that by 1988 the Direct Market was the only market worth worrying about.  (Either that, or they simply managed to so completely wreck the Legion and Teen Titans franchises during this post-Crisis period, that double-publishing them became a money loser!).

[valiantman]

The past 2,000+ sales of Amazing Spider-Man #300 (1988) recorded on GPAnalysis.com show 73% direct edition and 27% newsstand, but the percentage by CGC grade varies significantly.

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by valiantman