Keeping your collection private 4 4

[Mr. Machismo]

2 minutes ago, JadeGiant said:

Never say never ... your art can still find its way to the light

If it's truly a black hole collection, and if that means its never coming out, no amount of money would affect the outcome. It would come down to death. I suppose the only realistic possibility is owning a piece(s) they want more than the one you're inquiring about...which happens.

[JadeGiant]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

If it's truly a black hole collection, and if that means its never coming out, no amount of money would affect the outcome. It would come down to death. I suppose the only realistic possibility is owning a piece(s) they want more than the one you're inquiring about...which happens.

= hope

[Mr. Machismo]

2 minutes ago, JadeGiant said:

= hope

As a recent personal example...I was offered a great Hush splash for my Long Halloween TPB cover. I'm not doing it, but my only real shot at the Hush piece would be the trade.

[JadeGiant]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

As a recent personal example...I was offered a great Hush splash for my Long Halloween TPB cover. I'm not doing it, but my only real shot at the Hush piece would be the trade.

Is the Hush splash in a black hole collection? 

[AnkurJ]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

As a recent personal example...I was offered a great Hush splash for my Long Halloween TPB cover. I'm not doing it, but my only real shot at the Hush piece would be the trade.

Since you have many great Hush examples, I can understand not wanting to do the trade. For many the Long Halloween piece would be a crown jewel, so I can't blame you for not wanting to let it go. 

[Mr. Machismo]

12 minutes ago, JadeGiant said:

Is the Hush splash in a black hole collection? 

No idea, don't know the person well enough. It's just too expensive for me to buy outright.

8 minutes ago, AnkurJ said:

Since you have many great Hush examples, I can understand not wanting to do the trade. For many the Long Halloween piece would be a crown jewel, so I can't blame you for not wanting to let it go. 

Thanks. I've had large cash offers, but the only way I see myself trading it is [towards] a Hush cover, which I can't seem to find as they're all in "black hole collections" :P Goes back to the topic at hand!

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Mr. Machismo

[Timely]

Museums are made all across the world to show art. I may not have a museum, but I see no reason not so show the art I own.

As far as "fresh to market" pieces being worth more, wouldn't those be the pieces investors should avoid? After all, as soon as they buy the piece, it is no longer "fresh to market" and now the value has gone down... and by some standards in this thread, must wait 20 years to bring it back out so it can be "fresh to market" again.

I buy art to enjoy. Showing my art to others brings me additional enjoyment... and IMHO that's what life should be about.

[John S.]

On 9/11/2018 at 8:28 PM, Ironmandrd said:

Even the Cabal does not know many of them (although each Cabal member may confidentially know one or several). 

 

I missed this bit initially... So Ironmandrd are you confirming the existence of a Cabal ??

Edited September 13, 2018 by John S.

[Mephisto]

Ironically yesterday I got a PM on here from someone who hasn’t really been on here in years.

I sold them a trading card painting years ago on here and they sent me a message asking if I’ve got any new trading card paintings in the last 2 years since we last talked as I am the only other person they know that really collects them. They stated the were curious to see what I have these days because the selection has been very slim on CAF lately. 

The reason I find it so ironic is this person doesn’t have any of their own paintings up on CAF!

Then I have had another guy send me messages through CAF and different forums along with favoriting a lot of my pieces but when I click his name I get the “Oops this gallery can’t be found.” They have mentioned a few trading card paintings they have (3) but again do not have a CAF. 

One person on CAF I know has been buying this niche area of OA gave me a valid reason for taking his stuff down but he also doesn’t come asking about my stuff most of which is visible.

The problem I see with putting NONE of your own stuff out there is it can KILL the networking potential.

My other favorite is the guy who keeps messaging me where I get pieces from. That’s all the messages ever ask so of course I do not reply with the thought “Do you’re own digging!”...especially if you have nothing to offer in return. 

Actually the one time I did respond and said I bought it direct from the artists was then meet with what is there email address?...if they spent 10 seconds putting the artists name into google they would have found their website with the artists email address. That kind of laziness I just can’t be bothered with.

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Mephisto

[timguerrero]

The word grail as defined by the Merriam Webster dictionary: "the object of an extended or difficult quest", is there only one extended or difficult quest in life? I concur the word grail is not being inappropriately used.

[▫️]

In comic art I look at it like this.  If anyone claims they found their Grail then there is not one other piece of art that exists that they would trade it for.  I’ve wanted a Ronin page from FM for years and when I got one I didn’t call it my Grail because I would trade it for a Ronin cover in a heartbeat

[Ironmandrd]

14 hours ago, John S. said:

 

I missed this bit initially... So Ironmandrd are you confirming the existence of a Cabal ??

Far be it for me to confirm or deny the existence of the illusive (or imaginary) Cabal.   I was using the reference to stress test the definitional black hole hypothesis - even a supposed Old World sect of Illuminati collectors couldn’t possible know most/all of the black hole collections out there, many of which collections are by virtual definition unconnected to other collectors.  

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/12/2018 at 4:04 PM, Timely said:

Museums are made all across the world to show art. I may not have a museum, but I see no reason not so show the art I own.

As far as "fresh to market" pieces being worth more, wouldn't those be the pieces investors should avoid? After all, as soon as they buy the piece, it is no longer "fresh to market" and now the value has gone down... and by some standards in this thread, must wait 20 years to bring it back out so it can be "fresh to market" again.

I buy art to enjoy. Showing my art to others brings me additional enjoyment... and IMHO that's what life should be about.

Yep. Like driving a new car off the lot. Drops 10% in value the minute you leave the parking g lot. 

[Peter L]

9 hours ago, Ironmandrd said:

Far be it for me to confirm or deny the existence of the illusive (or imaginary) Cabal.   I was using the reference to stress test the definitional black hole hypothesis - even a supposed Old World sect of Illuminati collectors couldn’t possible know most/all of the black hole collections out there, many of which collections are by virtual definition unconnected to other collectors.  

I had one of my closest friends pass away last year.  He was a single older guy who lived by himself and just had a heart attack one day.  When he didn't show up for work his coworkers sent the police.  I found out a week later.  We went to comic con for maybe a decade every year and he was the best man at my wedding.  He played things close to the vest and wouldn't really tell me what he bought or collected, I think partially because he was embarrassed as he once said he collected good girl art.  Only by accident he let slip that he owned some slabbed Shoemberg comics and maybe things like most issues of Phantom Lady.  He was humble and didn't want to brag about anything but I think he had a lot of stuff.   For my birthday he once gave me slabbed Neal Adams comics out of his collection.  Once at comic con,  I was with him at an artist's booth and he checked that I didn't want to buy the covers.  When I passed on them, he bought them all.  He was the one to first introduced me to Heritage and initially would send me links to things he thought I would be interested in.  I suspect if I was not interested in them, he would get them.

Now a year later I think to write his family and say if they need help identifying what he had in his collection.  His friend who I never met writes me back saying they had a memorial party and the brother put all the things out and let people pick what they wanted to take home, and the rest he took to a comic store and said give me whatever a good offer is.  I would bet that no one knows the significance of the original art or what they are the covers for but it is a mildly big historical deal.  My biggest fear is that they end up in someone's trash because none of those friends of his were into comics.  

It was a sad end to his collection.  He was the one who told me with great sadness about the widow who sold the comics to Mile High.  I would say his collection was a black hole that may be lost to the world.

[JadeGiant]

46 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Yep. Like driving a new car off the lot. Drops 10% in value the minute you leave the parking g lot. 

Not the same in my eyes. New cars are generally fixed price (maybe a small range variance if there is an incentive, etc.) Art at auction is not fixed and pieces sell under FMV all the time (just watch dealer web sites to see which pieces are perceived to fit this description after each auction). Also depends on investment strategy - if you are looking long term there are limited edition sports cars that you can buy and watch them possibly  rise in value if you keep mileage low and condition like new. 

[JadeGiant]

8 minutes ago, Peter L said:

I had one of my closest friends pass away last year.  He was a single older guy who lived by himself and just had a heart attack one day.  When he didn't show up for work his coworkers sent the police.  I found out a week later.  We went to comic con for maybe a decade every year and he was the best man at my wedding.  He played things close to the vest and wouldn't really tell me what he bought or collected, I think partially because he was embarrassed as he once said he collected good girl art.  Only by accident he let slip that he owned some slabbed Shoemberg comics and maybe things like most issues of Phantom Lady.  He was humble and didn't want to brag about anything but I think he had a lot of stuff.   For my birthday he once gave me slabbed Neal Adams comics out of his collection.  Once at comic con,  I was with him at an artist's booth and he checked that I didn't want to buy the covers.  When I passed on them, he bought them all.  He was the one to first introduced me to Heritage and initially would send me links to things he thought I would be interested in.  I suspect if I was not interested in them, he would get them.

Now a year later I think to write his family and say if they need help identifying what he had in his collection.  His friend who I never met writes me back saying they had a memorial party and the brother put all the things out and let people pick what they wanted to take home, and the rest he took to a comic store and said give me whatever a good offer is.  I would bet that no one knows the significance of the original art or what they are the covers for but it is a mildly big historical deal.  My biggest fear is that they end up in someone's trash because none of those friends of his were into comics.  

It was a sad end to his collection.  He was the one who told me with great sadness about the widow who sold the comics to Mile High.  I would say his collection was a black hole that may be lost to the world.

Sorry for the loss of your friend

[stinkininkin]

9 hours ago, Peter L said:

I had one of my closest friends pass away last year.  He was a single older guy who lived by himself and just had a heart attack one day.  When he didn't show up for work his coworkers sent the police.  I found out a week later.  We went to comic con for maybe a decade every year and he was the best man at my wedding.  He played things close to the vest and wouldn't really tell me what he bought or collected, I think partially because he was embarrassed as he once said he collected good girl art.  Only by accident he let slip that he owned some slabbed Shoemberg comics and maybe things like most issues of Phantom Lady.  He was humble and didn't want to brag about anything but I think he had a lot of stuff.   For my birthday he once gave me slabbed Neal Adams comics out of his collection.  Once at comic con,  I was with him at an artist's booth and he checked that I didn't want to buy the covers.  When I passed on them, he bought them all.  He was the one to first introduced me to Heritage and initially would send me links to things he thought I would be interested in.  I suspect if I was not interested in them, he would get them.

Now a year later I think to write his family and say if they need help identifying what he had in his collection.  His friend who I never met writes me back saying they had a memorial party and the brother put all the things out and let people pick what they wanted to take home, and the rest he took to a comic store and said give me whatever a good offer is.  I would bet that no one knows the significance of the original art or what they are the covers for but it is a mildly big historical deal.  My biggest fear is that they end up in someone's trash because none of those friends of his were into comics.  

It was a sad end to his collection.  He was the one who told me with great sadness about the widow who sold the comics to Mile High.  I would say his collection was a black hole that may be lost to the world.

Jeez, this is just a crappy story all the way around.  Sorry for the loss of your friend.

[MyNameIsLegion]

Black-hole:  things go in, but don't come out- I think that is pretty much understood- but the key point is that you cannot see inside a black hole.  If everything in your gallery on CAF is NFS, you're are not a black-hole collector. if you are one of those guys that contacts people on CAF but don't have a gallery, or it's filled with scans of comic covers of books that you WTB, yeah, you may be a black hole collector.  In my experience though, most true black hole collectors simply are not active online in any sort of social way (message board, FB, whatever) They may be lurking, and if you look back at comic art-l or some of the FB groups, the number of active participants is not even 10% of the audience.  

more often than not, the black hole collectors simply are over the age of 60, and that explains their behavior more than anything else.  There's nothing intentional about it, or strategic, or shrewd, or shy- they simply aren't online.

which brings me to my next point:  "Fresh to Market" that too is mostly about whether or not a piece of art has been publicly sold or traded.  Emphasis on the word Market. Having art sitting in your CAF gallery I don't think makes a damn bit of difference if it's never changed hands via the "market". Art changes hands behind the scenes in private deals all the time, and that mostly goes unnoticed. Making an art day post about your recent HA win- I think we can generally agree that's the textbook definition of not "fresh to market."  Posting a piece of art on CAF that you got from a black hole collection, or some other means that was not visible to others, or simply something you have that's never been posted:  That's not fresh to market either, unless it's FS. I guess you can say it's "Fresh" for having never been shared online in a way that tells the world "Hey this art exists, and I own it" That's very different than a random image search that reveals a bunch of Pinterest posts that could very well have been scanned from F.O.O.M. or one of Mitch's old art catalogs from 30 years ago. The whole Flipping thread here is predicated on the quick turn of art in the marketplace when it is done publicly. By definition that art isn't "fresh." Nothing gets labelled as a Flip if the 1st transaction wasn't public.

[AnkurJ]

10 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

Jeez, this is just a crappy story all the way around.  Sorry for the loss of your friend.

Indeed! So sorry for your loss.

On a side note, and maybe discussion for another topic....setting up proper instructions on how to liquidate your estate or doing so hopefully before something happens to you.

Edited September 15, 2018 by AnkurJ

[ESeffinga]

Me as well.  That is a terrible blow.

I think on some ways the members here can see it as a cautionary tale, and I agree with Ankur that future/estate planning would make a very worthy topic for this board, and I suspect we might all learn a little something from such a thing.