batman_fan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 minute ago, AnkurJ said: Sorry to hear that! There is no excuse for abrasive behavior. There are of course pros and cons to posting ones art, but I do feel sharing your art is part of the enjoyment of this hobby. Whether it be on CAF, iPhone pics in person, social media etc. One of the most enjoyable parts of attending art cons for me is chatting with other fellow collectors who share their collection and their experiences in obtaining their treasures. Some of the most fun I have had was at the old Wondercon's in Oakland. I use to take a portfolio to show folks and they would do likewise. Now that I am Colorado, I really don't interact with anyone that collects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 6 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said: Because it gets more instant feedback from fellow collectors. CAF is kind of a good old boys network in that the people who have been around for a while get feedback whereas latecomers and ham and egged barely get noticed. I would say I've seen this more with the latter ("ham and eggers"), than the former ("latecomers"). The fact of the matter is that the high-profile pieces have always tended to get the most attention, regardless of who posted it. I'm not a FB guy, and have never been an FB guy. I understand where some may prefer it, but for me, I like having a gallery on CAF. An art post on FB is gone in 24 hours. Easily forgotten, no matter how nice the piece. I also don't get any real sense of who the poster is, as a collector, off of one piece. CAF isn't perfect, but I have yet to see another platform that can replace it. I hope collectors will continue to support it. The Voord and Panelfan1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister_not_so_nice Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, Nexus said: As for posting on CAF, as I've said over the years, because I do enjoy the site so much via updates from other collectors, I feel I have an obligation to share. Do I post everything? No. But it's a representative sample of my collection. Some of which may seem quite redundant if I posted it all. Redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstojano Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said: I had a guy who would consistently CAF message me (and others) when a new piece was posted to randomly compliment one of our pieces, fishing for return comments. That was one of numerous avenues in what seemed like a desperate need for affirmation on, what is in my opinion, unwise purchases. I do like comments, and I do like serious purchase inquiries even if I’m not selling. It’s nice to know should the need arise and I consider it a compliment that someone would like the piece so much as to want to buy it. Same thing just happened to me. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought at first the piece was FS, but it was not. Just a random "you have a piece by this artist, so do I". Totally unsure what the angle was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 i love posting my stuff, whether it be OA or comics, or toys. Frankly I'm an attention whore and need to have others enjoy my stuff too on a mass forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Upgrade Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Nexus said: There are plenty of "collectors" who will mimic (or attempt to mimic) the worst behavior of dealers when it comes time to sell/trade. Absolutely factual..it is a LEARNED BEHAVIOR... And, also when it comes time to BUY... Here are some text book, classic, and frequently employed lines... "I really like the art"; "I just want it for my collection"; "I never owed one before"; "Would you take XX?"; "Can I get a better price if I bought more than one?"; "I only pay 50% of FMV"; "I can't make any money at that price"; I need to make a profit"; "But I'm buying to resell"; "I have a tax i.d."; "I have to make my tables back first"; "I have payroll costs"; etc., etc., etc. Edited September 10, 2018 by First Upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Upgrade Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 LEARNED BEHAVIOR... For many of us, perhaps nearly all of us here, who buy, sell, trade or merely 'collect' original comic book art as well as comic books and associated collectibles, our actions are significantly inspired by past interactions with local comic book shop owners and original comic book art dealers. It is a historical fact that nearly all of those formative early interactions resulted in an inequitable outcome for the young customer. As the decades passed, those of us who adapted skill sets and 'tools', often derived out of continued learned behavior from observation and interaction with 'dealers', survived to become more 'successful' in this 'business'. I suggest that the 'holding back', or not widely publicising, ownership of a piece of original comic book art is another example of behavior learned via long term proximity to original comic book art 'dealers'. ...Each one of them have numerous pieces of art, regardless of valuation (A+ through Z-), that are available for purchase at the shows which are not currently listed for sale either on their websites or eBay stores... ...Every year, several of them will announce that they are bringing to the next show 'pieces from their personal collection' which also perpetuates a 'fresh to market' phenomena... ...And when the asking price results in another unsold appearance on the showroom floor, some of those examples' FMVs shall be determined somewhere amongst the next series of online auctions, some with and many without reserves...(just check your favorite auction preview right now) ...Least we not forget about the next looming website or 'CAF dealer update' so that relevance is maintained (with the vast majority of NEW pieces going unsold)...hold back somethings for the next update and hold back some of the better stuff for the next show!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 51 minutes ago, Will_K said: "has not been on the market for at least 20 years" Does that mean the same thing as "has not been seen for at least 20 years" ?? I've noticed that art that has been previously offered (let alone previously seen) hasn't suffered the same penalty as it might have in the past at auction. There just isn't the same stigma attached anymore to art that ISN'T "fresh-to-market". This is quite different, though, from art that has bounced around a lot in a short period. That art needs to be buried and forgotten before ever being offered again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inovrmihd Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Again, I don't post much of my collection, but I have to say that I have never encountered any of these problems. I have never had a rude inquiry or low ball bid on my art. I have had "if you ever want to sell, please keep me in mind" and i don't know how serious they were, but I don't mind that. I have had "I am new to the hobby, how much does something like that cost" and I don't mind answering what I paid if they are polite (which they were) - because I was once new to the hobby and had the same questions (people on this board were kind enough to give me advice when I joined - and still do). I have not ever encountered abusive behavior as a result of posting on CAF. Edited September 10, 2018 by inovrmihd Sooners151 and Panelfan1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peck Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I have been collecting for over 30 years and I have always been very open about my collection. When the opportunity in the late 90s to post some of my collection. First it was comicart-l and 5 pieces, then I created my own website, but then Bill Cox came along and blew the doors wide open with comicartfans. I like sharing my collection and flipping the other way love to see what others have to share. When it was just comicart-l limited to 5 pieces the numbers of collectors participating was small. I encourage more I worked with others to do the annual "Best of" where I hand counted all the votes each year, even when it first started on comicartfans. The "Best of" gets people who haven't posted all year or people repost their favorites which may have been missed by many because of how much art if posted on comicartfans each year. Yes I do sell some of my art but I never subscribed to the fresh to mark jive and thinking if the image has been on line for a while it will get less interest when it is sold. If someone wants the art doesnt matter if its been seen before or not. Other thing I love alot comicartfans is it brings out the lurkers and black hole collectors. Before CAF many higher end older collectors didn't even post on comicart-l Top 5 but with CAF they give collectors a small peak at the collections. he reason I like to share my collection is it gets others to share their collections. Many pieces in their collection I could not afford (if they were for sale). Its alot like SDCC and the wall of droll many of the dealers have. Out of the price range of most but you still get to look at them. Many times you can even hold the artwork. I remember a number of years back I got to hold X-Men #1 splash by Kirby at SDCC. Couldn't afford it but great tol see it in person and hold it. Twanj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glendgold Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Because this. Mr. Machismo, The Voord and Unca Ben 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkurJ Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, glendgold said: Because this. They want a xerox of your art? I think a simple sorry but no would work well here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peck Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 hours ago, batman_fan said: Some of the most fun I have had was at the old Wondercon's in Oakland. I use to take a portfolio to show folks and they would do likewise. Now that I am Colorado, I really don't interact with anyone that collects. I used to bring a book of xeroxes of some of my collection but now put it on my iPad. At SDCC I host a OA dinner and bring the ipad. The dinner is alot of fun put faces to names. Twanj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 hours ago, AnkurJ said: They want a xerox of your art? I think a simple sorry but no would work well here ? Isn’t Richard Rae a known forger or scammer? Unca Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peck Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 hours ago, glendgold said: Because this. The Re-Animated corpse of Richard Rae and Keif Fromm are two of the biggest scumbags in the OA community. I feel they are the exception, most collectors I have met and had deals with have been positive no real issues. One exception, I had one guy who it took three years to get a page I bought from him (JP Voinot) but in the end another fine collector helped me get the page. Many know me and I think I have a pretty good reputation which helps when doing deals with other collectors who may not know me that well. Even though I am very open with my collection and try and help out other collectors, the hobby can be segmented and not everyone is connected to the online oa community as others are.. RabidFerret 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peck Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said: Isn’t Richard Rae a known forger or scammer? Yes he is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter L Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 38 minutes ago, Brian Peck said: The Re-Animated corpse of Richard Rae and Keif Fromm are two of the biggest scumbags in the OA community. I feel they are the exception, most collectors I have met and had deals with have been positive no real issues. One exception, I had one guy who it took three years to get a page I bought from him (JP Voinot) but in the end another fine collector helped me get the page. Many know me and I think I have a pretty good reputation which helps when doing deals with other collectors who may not know me that well. Even though I am very open with my collection and try and help out other collectors, the hobby can be segmented and not everyone is connected to the online oa community as others are.. I have had a bad experience with Keif Fromm. I didn't know he had a reputation about him. What's the story about him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peck Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, Peter L said: I have had a bad experience with Keif Fromm. I didn't know he had a reputation about him. What's the story about him? He is a scammer! He has stolen art from golden age artists and tried to steal money from at least one collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter L Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Brian Peck said: He is a scammer! He has stolen art from golden age artists and tried to steal money from at least one collector. Oh wow! I missed a close one. Most people I have interacted with on CAF has been terrific but he was not. I am glad for being able to interact with you and this community. Edited September 10, 2018 by Peter L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter L Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Regarding the theory that if a piece is not fresh and has been in the marketplace a lot over the last 20 years, and would bring in a lesser price, does this suggest that this isn't a top piece of art in the first place? If a piece of art has switched hands a lot over the last 20 years, wouldn't that suggest that the piece is not so fantastic that the owner and subsequent owners would want to hang on to it? I would think that someone who has owned the piece for 20 years really treasures it because it is a good piece, so it would go for more when it does go for sale because of its qualities and not just the freshness. Edited September 10, 2018 by Peter L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
