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HOS and Posting Privileges
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HALL OF SHAME  

67 members have voted

  1. 1. Should hall of shame members lose posting privileges/be banned while on the list?

    • YES
      49
    • NO
      18


97 posts in this topic

On 9/14/2018 at 1:04 PM, Mr.Mcknowitall said:

PL List is not a part of the vote Poll, at the moment. So, which is it, the couple you know about are on the PL List or the HOS List, or both? If it is the HOS List, wouldn't you want to be as diligent as Andrew has been, in naming those individuals? Seems to me that would be the proper response given your comments on the subject. 

Any opinions concerning the other aspects of my Cool Books Posts? I would be interested.

 

This is why, Mr. Logan. You are the person that stated you know of members that are doing so, yet you did not follow the example of Andrew, and disclose the names.

 

On 9/14/2018 at 12:20 PM, Logan510 said:

I wonder if the 14 members who voted "no" regularly conduct business privately with PL / HOS members?

 

I know of at least a couple who do.

To refresh your memory. 

It is not about "a" member (singular). The Poll is not about "a" member" (singular), even though I understand you may prefer it be. It is about Rules being applied for ALL members. Trying to restrict it to one member, in a Javertian manner, without regard to addressing the entire issue, settles nothing.

If a member (me) is invited to a PM conversation, and states....what you label a 'contrarian" opinion.....an opinion about the over and over and over posts concerning Mr. Cataldo, and then is accused of backing the wrong horse, sticking my neck out, and DEFENDING the person's behavior.....and that member know clearly the actions were not being defended..... and suggests a Poll..... and the PM conversation clearly proves this and the member is asked to release the PMs after getting permission of the other 2 participants, and the PMs are never released, yet that member does not admit lying and characterizing my reasons for a "contrary" opinion, then yes, I am a "contrarian". I do not appreciate being portrayed in an untrue vein, and depicted as lying.

So, are you going to publicly release the names of the members that you know are engaging in PM buying and selling and are on the HOS list? How about the members that are not on the List that are doing business by PM with those on the HOS List? Should they be outed? Any double standard there?

I hope this addresses your curiosity. BTW, I am a member also. 

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I think opinions on managing the comic book Probation List and Hall of Shame should be focused on Board members who actually use the marketplace to buy and sell comics.  Issues related to the use and oversight of the comic book marketplace shouldn't be dictated by a non-user.  Why should collectors value the opinion of someone completely inexperienced and unfamiliar with the marketplace, its set of rules and the issues that arise?

 

Edited by namisgr
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Hi all,

This issue isn't a new one, and has been addressed before. Just for reference, if you're curious about past discussions - here is one thread (among many by the community in general) where moderation treatment was outlined.

The most relevant portion of that thread in terms of moderation policy is probably this:

Quote

To be clear, hashing this issue out on the probation thread, and providing probation list notifications within the marketplace on a listed person's posts is ok.

 

Trailing the dispute all over the other forums where it is not on-topic is not ok.

 

Masking or any other posting guideline violations in the discussion of this or any other topic -- where ever it occurs -- also not ok.

The buy/sell area isn't monitored or policed by moderation in terms of transaction success / failure. Posting guidelines are enforced, but not more than that. There are a number of reasons for that.

  1. CGC isn't responsible for transactions, and can't verify what did or didn't happen between parties in a transaction. For the legal version of this, please see our terms of use - as I don't want to misword the actual limitations. In general, though, we can see what has been posted, but we can't tell what happened away from the boards. The boards are an advertising venue in that regard, not a transaction processor. Transactions are the responsibility of the parties of the transaction.
     
  2. The HOS and probation lists are great community-run tools to "review" buyers and sellers, but they have never been mandatory for all transactions on the boards. That's not just a moderation rule, it has been a community conclusions as well. Some people don't mind working with HOS / probation list members. That's their decision - wise or unwise.
     
  3. A person's inability to transact responsibly doesn't mean they are incapable of being a contributing poster, which is why we don't ban them for what may or may not have happened in a transaction.
     
  4. We think that providing relevant factual information on a buy/sell thread - dispassionately and simply, is something the community can do without running afoul of moderation guidelines - meaning on either a buy or sell post, one simply reminder that this person has a history on the HOS or probation lists is appropriate. But it doesn't need to get nasty, it doesn't need to be all over the boards - marketplace only please - and it doesn't need to be repetitive.

Are there exceptions to this? Yes.

If, for example, law enforcement verifies that a person has engaged in criminal activity related to the comics community, we may ban them because a trusted authority has established the facts. CGC may ban someone based on its own verified knowledge of the actions of an individual, but it's not related to being on or off the HOS or probation list directly. We also have banned specific individuals when the community disruption is too significant to tolerate - but others causing the disruption may go with them - judged on a case by case basis.

 

Regarding the PM issues

Again, members are buying and selling at their own risk, but we encourage everyone to take full advantage of the community knowledge of the reliability and honesty of various members based on past actions and make their own judgments. PMs are not just a tool to discuss buying and selling on the boards, though. I get it. Someone on the HOS list who PMs a newer user may conduct buys and sells without anyone alerting the newer user to the community tools, or to a particular person's status on them. It's something worth thinking about.

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I forgot to add:

On 9/10/2018 at 1:18 PM, Pirate said:

If you post that the person is on the HOS list per cgcmod8 in a thread they are posting in, you can be charged with trollling and be moderated.

 

On 9/10/2018 at 1:23 PM, Pirate said:

Credit to Mr. McKnowitall for the idea of a poll.

All members are encouraged to vote, regardless of opinion or why voting, since it effects the entire community. (thumbsu

It is of course up to the Host what happens and what Rules should or should not be added/enforced/etc. 

Nobody knows what members have bought/sold and or participated in commerce in any manner with other members, and what manner the participation venue is or was. and it does not negate the value of a member's opinion.

Such issues should never exclude an opinion by any member. To suggest that  an opinion by any member should be barred/excluded is contrary to the entire idea of a public Board and is exclusionary, haughty, and clique centered for personal reasons, such as dislike of an individual, social haughtiness, or superiority complex, to name a few.

My opinion, of course.

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11 minutes ago, Architecht said:

Hi all,

This issue isn't a new one, and has been addressed before. Just for reference, if you're curious about past discussions - here is one thread (among many by the community in general) where moderation treatment was outlined.

The most relevant portion of that thread in terms of moderation policy is probably this:

The buy/sell area isn't monitored or policed by moderation in terms of transaction success / failure. Posting guidelines are enforced, but not more than that. There are a number of reasons for that.

  1. CGC isn't responsible for transactions, and can't verify what did or didn't happen between parties in a transaction. For the legal version of this, please see our terms of use - as I don't want to misword the actual limitations. In general, though, we can see what has been posted, but we can't tell what happened away from the boards. The boards are an advertising venue in that regard, not a transaction processor. Transactions are the responsibility of the parties of the transaction.
     
  2. The HOS and probation lists are great community-run tools to "review" buyers and sellers, but they have never been mandatory for all transactions on the boards. That's not just a moderation rule, it has been a community conclusions as well. Some people don't mind working with HOS / probation list members. That's their decision - wise or unwise.
     
  3. A person's inability to transact responsibly doesn't mean they are incapable of being a contributing poster, which is why we don't ban them for what may or may not have happened in a transaction.
     
  4. We think that providing relevant factual information on a buy/sell thread - dispassionately and simply, is something the community can do without running afoul of moderation guidelines - meaning on either a buy or sell post, one simply reminder that this person has a history on the HOS or probation lists is appropriate. But it doesn't need to get nasty, it doesn't need to be all over the boards - marketplace only please - and it doesn't need to be repetitive.

Are there exceptions to this? Yes.

If, for example, law enforcement verifies that a person has engaged in criminal activity related to the comics community, we may ban them because a trusted authority has established the facts. CGC may ban someone based on its own verified knowledge of the actions of an individual, but it's not related to being on or off the HOS or probation list directly. We also have banned specific individuals when the community disruption is too significant to tolerate - but others causing the disruption may go with them - judged on a case by case basis.

 

Regarding the PM issues

Again, members are buying and selling at their own risk, but we encourage everyone to take full advantage of the community knowledge of the reliability and honesty of various members based on past actions and make their own judgments. PMs are not just a tool to discuss buying and selling on the boards, though. I get it. Someone on the HOS list who PMs a newer user may conduct buys and sells without anyone alerting the newer user to the community tools, or to a particular person's status on them. It's something worth thinking about.

That is a very clear guide, and very logical. I certainly appreciate this clarity.

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I guess I voted hastily. I just considered that if I personally hosted a site where a member was in a Hall of Shame for spurning members out of goods or money, I would revoke their PM status or ban them to protect the community. I understand that CGC doesn't verify transactions and stuff, but I thought they'd be more interested in keeping things 'clean'.

I also understand that the site is more than just buying and selling comics, and that's what changes my POV. I don't think that bans for HOS are appropriate. I'm torn on revoking PMs, though. I don't see many reasons for PMing other than for offers, and trading personal info for transactions. Unless two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons wanna argue with each other without getting warnings on the public board lol.

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1 minute ago, TwoPiece said:

I guess I voted hastily. I just considered that if I personally hosted a site where a member was in a Hall of Shame for spurning members out of goods or money, I would revoke their PM status or ban them to protect the community. I understand that CGC doesn't verify transactions and stuff, but I thought they'd be more interested in keeping things 'clean'.

I also understand that the site is more than just buying and selling comics, and that's what changes my POV. I don't think that bans for HOS are appropriate. I'm torn on revoking PMs, though. I don't see many reasons for PMing other than for offers, and trading personal info for transactions. Unless two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons wanna argue with each other without getting warnings on the public board lol.

A good Post and reflection, in my opinion. I actually agree, except  PMs can also be private info about family, the health of another member or their particular difficulties, that they would not like shared, seeking advice or opinion on a matter that the person might not want to be known, and of course the ever popular reason....talking about another member, which of course is going to happen. 

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I wish I could just copy and paste the HoS list to my Ignored Users list...boom, problem solved!

I find the people here pretty forgiving about a lot of things until said wrongdoer continues their behavior and/or doesn't apologize for screwing up / make amends.  Anyone who belongs on that list doesn't have ANY knowledge or opinions I care to read...unless I want to learn how to scam folks.

Lot of "I"s there and it sounds pretty self serving I'm sure, but what else can one state but their own feelings.

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6 minutes ago, Mystafo said:

I wish I could just copy and paste the HoS list to my Ignored Users list...boom, problem solved!

I find the people here pretty forgiving about a lot of things until said wrongdoer continues their behavior and/or doesn't apologize for screwing up / make amends.  Anyone who belongs on that list doesn't have ANY knowledge or opinions I care to read...unless I want to learn how to scam folks.

Lot of "I"s there and it sounds pretty self serving I'm sure, but what else can one state but their own feelings.

I don't think it is self serving at all.

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@Architecht

The thread you posted was from 2009, there have been many changes since then that make it harder for new members to know about the HOS and Probation list and for people to FIND it.

While your link in the sales forums is helpful, it's hard to make sense of if you are new and click on it.  It also might be confusing to new people and even some older people.  I had made the suggestion about a custom title a long time ago and I understand why you can't do that, however, instead of just having a link to the "probation forum" on the top of the sales thread, would it be possible for there to be a direct link to the probation and HOS list instead? 

It might help people see what is going on more easily and even if it saves just one bad transaction for someone, it should be worth it.  I'd like it in red so it stands out, but I'd settle for a more specific link.

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1 hour ago, skypinkblu said:

@Architecht

The thread you posted was from 2009, there have been many changes since then that make it harder for new members to know about the HOS and Probation list and for people to FIND it.

While your link in the sales forums is helpful, it's hard to make sense of if you are new and click on it.  It also might be confusing to new people and even some older people.  I had made the suggestion about a custom title a long time ago and I understand why you can't do that, however, instead of just having a link to the "probation forum" on the top of the sales thread, would it be possible for there to be a direct link to the probation and HOS list instead? 

It might help people see what is going on more easily and even if it saves just one bad transaction for someone, it should be worth it.  I'd like it in red so it stands out, but I'd settle for a more specific link.

No easy way that I see to link to the most RECENT HOS/Probation list post. It's easy to link to the thread, or to a specific page number, but no dynamic link that will always take you to the last page.

I did just turn the links red, though, and up the size. Easy to do, and a good idea so they're not missed.

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1 hour ago, Architecht said:

No easy way that I see to link to the most RECENT HOS/Probation list post. It's easy to link to the thread, or to a specific page number, but no dynamic link that will always take you to the last page.

I did just turn the links red, though, and up the size. Easy to do, and a good idea so they're not missed.

Well, that helps, thank you! 

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5 hours ago, Architecht said:

 

Regarding the PM issues

Again, members are buying and selling at their own risk, but we encourage everyone to take full advantage of the community knowledge of the reliability and honesty of various members based on past actions and make their own judgments. PMs are not just a tool to discuss buying and selling on the boards, though. I get it. Someone on the HOS list who PMs a newer user may conduct buys and sells without anyone alerting the newer user to the community tools, or to a particular person's status on them. It's something worth thinking about.

... especially if a user publicly admits that they are trying to conduct business through PM. Thanks for even considering it though.  I realize that this is a case by case basis. 

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On 9/13/2018 at 10:07 AM, Mr.Mcknowitall said:

27.5% of members voting (11) have voted no. They all must be backing the wrong horse and sticking their necks out and defending wrongly. 

Update: 16 have voted no.

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