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How did speculators obtain multiple copies of comics in the 60s?
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78 posts in this topic

Bundles and spinner rack metal holders were the death of high grade for many a brand new Silver and Bronze Age comic.

@PUNYHUMAN  Where did you grow up in South Jersey?  I was born and raised there, and the local 7-11s and news agencies in Westmont and Collingswood were the sources for my new comic purchases every Wednesday.  The former used spinner racks, and you had to buy your books on the day the new ones arrived, or they'd all suffer from stress lines at the side metal holders from where other customers had already pawed the stacks to look in the back for other issues.

By 1970, I know that many collectors were speculating on first issues by buying multiple (2-10) copies off the newsstand.  Kirby's DC number ones and any new Marvel superhero book were highly sought after.  From other collectors, I too learned that the slew of new Marvel titles in 1968 were highly collected in multiples.

 

Edited by namisgr
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When I started buying comics myself in 1965 (9/10 years old) I rode my bike to the local pharmacy and then right across the street to the 7-11.

I knew when the new books arrived and with my .25 cent allowance (and maybe another .25 cents for additional chores) it would take me all month to get all the issues I wanted.

I could have purchased whatever I wanted and chances are nobody would have batted an eye, they probably would just think, " there's a kid wasting his money on comic books" and since I frequented both of those places on a weekly/bi-weekly buying comics and baseball cards they probably would not have given it a second thought.

Think about it, I was allowed to walk into any store and buy cigarettes at age 10 without any questions so why would you question buying multiple copies of comic books?

And if they did the answer would be "I am buying for me and my friends".

Edited by marvelmaniac
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Heard back from Doug Sulipa from Comic World in Steinbach, Manitoba when I asked him what was going on in the '60's and here's his answer.  I know he's very busy with his mail order business so It's great that he took the time to answer. Thought I'd share as it's pretty relevant to what's been asked. 

 

In the 1960's anyone who wanted to buy multiple copies usually just bought them right off the news stands. Apparently, only a handful of people who owned a news stand, also dealt in back issue comics, and they would have been the only ones who got the Wholesale (small 20% - 30% discount), but with full return privileges.

 

The first year I (Doug) bought multiples copies was in 1968 when I bought 3 - 5 copies each of Silver Surfur 1, Iron Man 1 and Sub Mariner 1.

 

At a talk at a comic convention, Neal Adams said that in some cities Like New York, some sellers were buying up multiple returned copies that were meant by be stripped, but were illegally resold rather than destroyed. (I (Doug) recall hearing about a Mile HIgh 2 Collection with a huge quantity of multiple copies of late Silver Age to early Bronze Age copies, apparently from comics that were meant to be stripped - not sure what happened with these. 

 

There were rumors about a big quantity of Marvel File Copies being destroyed (Apparently something to do with not wanting to pay the Writer & Artist Creators)

 

There was a handful of notable dealers/Investors in the 1960's, mostly mail order dealers (Robert Bell, Claude Held, Howard Rogofsky, Gary Dolgoff, etc.) and sellers thru RBCC (Rockets Blast Comic Collector) & other Fanzines, at small Comic Cons, in better cities., and thru tiny ads in the actual comics. 

 

I assume some of these sellers stocked multiple copies. 

 

In the early 1980's I bought 100 copies each of Fantastic Four #48, Conan the Barbarian #1 mainly in the VF - NM condition ranges, and other key issues, (if I recall correctly) from Gary Dolgoff and/or Joseph Koch, from a dealer who Sold Out and Retired (rumored to be Robert Bell)

 

In the early 1980's , I bought 100 copies each of mainly 1960's to early 1970's Warren Magazines (Creepy, Eerie, Vampirella) mainly in the VF - NM ranges, (if I recall correctly) from Gary Dolgoff and/or Joseph Koch, from the Warren Warehouse, when the company folded. 

 

I recall that Gary Dolgoff sold a full long box (300 copies) of Iron Man #1's and NM average to a dealer about 15 years ago from a "find". 

 

Interesting stuff.

 

 

 

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My local magazine distributor was open to the public one day a week. I started buying from them the summer of 1976. Twenty five cent books cost me about 17 cents each.

It was strange. They charged 17 cents per book, unless you had exactly 100. Then they charged $16.67 per hundred and 17 cents for extras.

At first I thought it was a hundred book minimum order but that was only suggested.

Cash only. When I looked into an account, it made no sense as I already had the same terms as a walk in.

Edited by shadroch
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On 9/13/2018 at 11:37 AM, bc said:

I would visit several newstands/grocery stores/gas stations (basically anywhere I could get to that sold comics). Started off pre-driving age on my bike with one of those front basket racks to hold the books. After I could drive, the radius expanded so I could get more copies. We didn't have an LCS, so this was all thru normal retail channels at cover price.

Not once did any owner ever stop me from buying every copy of an issue. In fact, I think they were glad to take my money!

Just out of curiosity, what year(s) was/were this/these?  :blush:

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I bought new comics from 1963 on and started buying golden age in 1965 from used bookstores.  It never occurred to me to buy multiples of any new comic until 1972 and 1973.  7-11 provided the source for that.  I don't know what prompted the speculation, as comics were not appreciating that much in those days.  I guess it was the blurb on each issue that said "First Collectors Edition" ...lol  Well, that speculation lasted a couple years and then I settled back into buying one copy...and that was only the Spiderman titles. 

 

Edited by Tri-ColorBrian
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On 9/16/2018 at 12:29 PM, ninanina said:

In the 1960's anyone who wanted to buy multiple copies usually just bought them right off the news stands. Apparently, only a handful of people who owned a news stand, also dealt in back issue comics, and they would have been the only ones who got the Wholesale (small 20% - 30% discount), but with full return privileges.

Interesting. Weeding out the multiple anecdotes from the 70s, when comics specialty stores were on the rise, it appears that the only way to speculate on brand new comics in the 60s was to have access to multiple newsstands, and buy all the copies they had, which wouldn't have been typical throughout most of the country. I know, for example, that Burbank, CA only had a single newsstand in the 30s and 40s, downtown, that serviced the area, because the population was so small, more weren't necessary. I'd still like to know how, if at all, vendors dealt with their comics selling out to a handful of individuals, and if they had ANY customers who complained that they missed something...or, being mostly kids, just sucked it up and dealt with it.

I imagine that those who got tired of missing issues simply went the subscription route, which, as I understand it, was still rather substantial in the 60s.

Which leads me to some other questions about the entire process, like "how were buyers meant to have speculated on comics starting in 1964-1965, if the vast majority of them didn't have access to many copies?"...unless the definition of "speculation" includes any number of copies purchased above "1".

hm

I also wonder....though this seems highly unlikely...did anyone have MULTIPLE subscriptions to the same title, so they were receiving 2, 3, or more copies of the each issue as it came out...?

Now, back issue speculation, no problem. There were, as we've discussed here before, budding conventions across the country in these years, as well as the prototypical local comic stores, and, of course, the used book store, so buying multiples, even over time, would have been more possible that way.

I still don't understand the mechanism of how vendors ordered their comics,,,if anyone can answer that, it would be appreciated. Did they just "get what they got", or was there some sort of rudimentary selection process that existed? If they just "got what they got", who decided for them? The local ID distributor? Regional? National? 

I SUSPECT that the majority of the easily available copies in the early 70s of books like FF #48 and Iron Man #1 was from either the affidavit fraud system that was, as I understand it, fairly rampant at the time, OR distributors who never bothered to deal with returns, because land (and thus warehousing) was relatively cheap, and ended up with hundreds of undistributed and/or "returned" copies....or even some mixture of both these "systems."

It's hard to reconcile high grade copies having come trickling in, ones and twos, with these "finds."

But, that's neither here nor there with the topic at hand. 

If you get a chance, ninanina, thank Doug for me, and thank YOU for being the messenger. :)

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33 minutes ago, Tri-ColorBrian said:

I don't know what prompted the speculation, as comics were not appreciating that much in those days.

I wonder how many buyers of comics in 1967-1968 were even AWARE that a book like Amazing Fantasy #15 even existed, much less was selling for $5-$10 a copy from dealers by then...

hm

These little clues lead me to believe that comics fandom, far from being large and organized, was still very much in its infancy at this time, and collectors were still few and far between. It's the lack of access to information you and others had that really convinces me that things were still small and formative. 

I just leafed through a DD #5...published in the fall of 1964...and there's not a word about collecting comics, or back issues, or anything of the sort. Collecting stamps? You bet, a whole page. Coins? Sure. Studying electronics, or writing songs, or neat gadgets to amaze your friends, or even full page ads for the latest comics? You bet. But not a word, even in the letters pages, about collecting.

How was anyone in Des Moines, IA, even supposed to know that there were people who collected these things...?

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>>I still don't understand the mechanism of how vendors ordered their comics,,,if anyone can answer that, it would be appreciated. Did they just "get what they got", or was there some sort of rudimentary selection process that existed? If they just "got what they got", who decided for them? The local ID distributor? Regional? National? 

 

I've always heard they just got what they got. But it would be "decided" from the local, who got what he got from the regional.

 

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On 9/12/2018 at 2:50 AM, HouseofComics.Com said:

The procedure was to contact and befriend the local jobber/distributor/wholesaler, no? This was a trick that persisted into the the 80s where comic book store owners, etc. could go to the newsstand guy (who was a bit behind the direct market) and get all the copies of Thor 337, ASM 252, and Punisher mini #1 after they were instant direct market hits. I first learned of this in 1985 when a store owner in Grand Rapids told me he could get me more copies of Punisher 1 because he'd grabbed 50 or 100 newsstand copies from the local distributor.

 

Also, I've always read that it was the instant success of Conan #1 that led to the heavy speculation in Shazam 1, Shadow 1, even other things like Black Magic 1, Secret Origins 1, etc. Followed of course by Howard the Duck 1.

I heard that as well that Conan #1 started a frenzy like TMNT did with the b&w market. Don't know if true though.

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4 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I heard that as well that Conan #1 started a frenzy like TMNT did with the b&w market. Don't know if true though.

I believe that is correct.  Barry Smith was a hot artist back then, and Conan really took off.  When I finally started buying multiples, the first issue of Conan I saw was #20...and I bought 3 copies...I was just blown away by the beauty of the cover.

=Conan20.jpg

Edited by Tri-ColorBrian
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On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:29 AM, ninanina said:

 

 

In the early 1980's I bought 100 copies each of Fantastic Four #48, Conan the Barbarian #1 mainly in the VF - NM condition ranges, and other key issues, (if I recall correctly) from Gary Dolgoff and/or Joseph Koch, from a dealer who Sold Out and Retired (rumored to be Robert Bell)

 

In the early 1980's , I bought 100 copies each of mainly 1960's to early 1970's Warren Magazines (Creepy, Eerie, Vampirella) mainly in the VF - NM ranges, (if I recall correctly) from Gary Dolgoff and/or Joseph Koch, from the Warren Warehouse, when the company folded. 

 

I recall that Gary Dolgoff sold a full long box (300 copies) of Iron Man #1's and NM average to a dealer about 15 years ago from a "find". 

 

Interesting stuff.

 

 

 

I ended up buying the last 3 copies of Nick Fury #1 off Gary Dolgoff.   I got the impression he had been sitting on a large pile of them for years, and slowly whittled it down as CGC came into play, and all the top graded books set their own price points well above guide.

I still have them, great registration, and ridiculously mint (only 9.8's).   And his pricing wasn't aggressive.

 

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On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:03 AM, PUNYHUMAN said:
On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 11:13 PM, Tony D said:

There were several news stands I frequented and sometimes the books were not all in the best condition at one news stand. If I had to go to another news stand, it was not much of an effort because in Brooklyn they were at every train station and there were numerous stands along the main Avenues. There was never a problem buying multiple copies, although I got a few strange looks and comments occasionally about buying multiple copies of the same book. In my neighborhood in Brooklyn, new comics came in from the distributor on Tuesdays and Thursdays in bundles tied with string. The comics on the top and bottom of the bundles were generally not in the best condition due to how tightly tied they were. I got friendly with a couple of the owners  and they would let me cut open the bundles to find the best condition books before they were put out for sale. 

Oh Boy, that brings back memories. It was the same for me also in South Jersey. I remember the bundles, with string. I always went for a copy in the middle. In the summer I would get up early sometimes  and go downtown and wait for the delivery truck. this would be around 1967/1968. Great times. What a way to start my day off!!:cloud9:

Here's an unopened bundle I have:

bundle.thumb.jpg.4c220d523ea9da7ecca0a3abb044fe1a.jpg

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6 hours ago, DevilLand said:

Was he? He hadn't really done much before Conan, just a couple issues each of X-Men, DD, and Avengers (and the Conan tryout), and he was basically a Kirby clone until Conan. Why was he so hot?

Well, by the time I discovered Conan he was pretty hot, and I think it was his work on Conan that got people excited about his art.  However, I only have the opinions of myself and 4 other collectors at the time to confirm that...

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