CBCS to CGC Grading 0

[The Lions Den]

On 9/16/2019 at 3:20 PM, Krismusic said:

now the million dollar question would be has anyone gotten a higher grade from CGC than another grading service?

From what I've heard, it does happen on occasion...

[James J Johnson]

8 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

Moreover, I'm sure that CGC would conduct their own examination of the book, regardless of what CBCS decided...   

Re: Unwitnessed autograph authenticating.

I've been collecting autos for a long time, and when I was kid I inherited a wonderful collection. Many different subjects. My grandfather was an autograph collector. "Hounds", they were called back then. Before the monetary aspect became the main driver. Until the advent of autograph authenticating services, like JSA, Beckett, PSA/DNA, etc., when auto collectors sought authentication advice, and the signer was deceased or unavailable for comment, the advice of a well-known expert in that questioned signature would be sought. There were no "Jacks of all trades", the same people authenticating hundreds of thousands of different signers ink, mostly based on exemplars and systems. If you wanted to know about a Beatles signature, you asked Frank Caiazzo, who wouldn't have to reference exemplars. Frank will just glance at the signature and can tell you real or not, and if not, who signed it as a proxy! Frank doesn't authenticate 100,000 other signers, his expertise is Beatles! And he's the best at what he does. Instant recognition.

This is what we've gotten away from. Experts that are ultra-proficient in one or several autographs with an extremely negligible margin of error. Autograph authentication has gotten away from "specialists", like Frank., which is why there is such a huge margin of error in the authenticating companies.

[Krismusic]

On 10/1/2019 at 4:35 PM, James J Johnson said:

Re: Unwitnessed autograph authenticating.

I've been collecting autos for a long time, and when I was kid I inherited a wonderful collection. Many different subjects. My grandfather was an autograph collector. "Hounds", they were called back then. Before the monetary aspect became the main driver. Until the advent of autograph authenticating services, like JSA, Beckett, PSA/DNA, etc., when auto collectors sought authentication advice, and the signer was deceased or unavailable for comment, the advice of a well-known expert in that questioned signature would be sought. There were no "Jacks of all trades", the same people authenticating hundreds of thousands of different signers ink, mostly based on exemplars and systems. If you wanted to know about a Beatles signature, you asked Frank Caiazzo, who wouldn't have to reference exemplars. Frank will just glance at the signature and can tell you real or not, and if not, who signed it as a proxy! Frank doesn't authenticate 100,000 other signers, his expertise is Beatles! And he's the best at what he does. Instant recognition.

This is what we've gotten away from. Experts that are ultra-proficient in one or several autographs with an extremely negligible margin of error. Autograph authentication has gotten away from "specialists", like Frank., which is why there is such a huge margin of error in the authenticating companies.

isn't this why the yellow label was created so there is no question no expert needed as its witnessed and no need to worry about who's verifying the sig you know its legit unless slab cracked or evidence of tampering etc... but you have no worries with a yellow.

[James J Johnson]

43 minutes ago, Krismusic said:

isn't this why the yellow label was created so there is no question no expert needed as its witnessed and no need to worry about who's verifying the sig you know its legit unless slab cracked or evidence of tampering etc... but you have no worries with a yellow.

Yes. No need to question atypical signatures; "Gee, it's authenticated by xyz, but it sure doesn't look good to me; I have my doubts". That's the thing with authentication. Autograph specialists, that is, an authenticator who specializes in a scant few signatures or a jack of all trades; an authenticator who passes or fails any one of 100,000 different signer's tracks using exemplars (which can also be fake!!) and/or contrived systems of authentication, render opinions. It's much like grading. Subjective. There are those that can offer a far more valid opinion that others, but it's all still subjective.  Seeing the signer put the pen to paper and documenting it transcends opinion. And that's why for comics, CGC's witnessed COAs, the yellow label and data printed on it, are ironclad,witnessed assurance, and not an opinion.