2000 CE: When pressing was restoration... 1 1

[bronze johnny]

Came across this on eBay and will put here for the purpose of demonstrating how comic book restoration included pressing in its criteria for one restorer/preservationist. Note pressing is the last item noted. I would add that cover cleaning is included but it's unclear which type it is? Interesting how the perspective on pressing has changed.

Please feel free to post any documents provided by restorers back then that include the restoration they did and whether pressing is included.

thanks!

john

Edited September 15, 2018 by bronze johnny

[Bomber-Bob]

Yes, all the services listed are now deemed restoration except for pressing. Per Borock, since they could not accurately detect pressing, they had to give it a pass. However, this fact was generally kept a 'secret' that only the insiders knew about After Borock left CGC, he became a dealer, and bought/sold many books on the Boards. He stated he would have his books pressed. Note: He did not press himself. A man has to know his limitations ! This seemed to spread the word about pressing and made it legitimate to most collectors. The slab game has always been about getting the funny stuff past CGC. This is simply a case where they couldn't detect it. Who knows how pressing would have been viewed if they were able to detect it. The fact that pressing is now a big part of their business model and the foundation for the CPR game does imply it was in the plan all along. 

[bronze johnny]

8 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Yes, all the services listed are now deemed restoration except for pressing. Per Borock, since they could not accurately detect pressing, they had to give it a pass. However, this fact was generally kept a 'secret' that only the insiders knew about After Borock left CGC, he became a dealer, and bought/sold many books on the Boards. He stated he would have his books pressed. Note: He did not press himself. A man has to know his limitations ! This seemed to spread the word about pressing and made it legitimate to most collectors. The slab game has always been about getting the funny stuff past CGC. This is simply a case where they couldn't detect it. Who knows how pressing would have been viewed if they were able to detect it. The fact that pressing is now a big part of their business model and the foundation for the CPR game does imply it was in the plan all along. 

Thanks for the insight Bob. Just identify the "pancake" books - they're easy to identify- and you can note "probably pressed" on the label. Nevertheless, I think it's important for us to document what comic book collecting was like before the CPR game. Be great to put documents like the one above in a place accessible to everyone so that they can see where things were. History is cyclical after all. 

[Gaard]

I don't think the word 'probably' should be used anywhere on the label.

[bronze johnny]

1 hour ago, Gaard said:

I don't think the word 'probably' should be used anywhere on the label.

Apparent is the better word. 

[joeypost]

If you want to use the correct verbiage, it should state "poorly or improperly pressed".

[Bomber-Bob]

58 minutes ago, joeypost said:

If you want to use the correct verbiage, it should state "poorly or improperly pressed".

Have you ever seen such a comment mentioned in the notes ? If a poor press job has a negative effect on the grade, I think it would merit a reference in the notes.  While I know they would never consider putting something on the label, how about 'Apparent Amateur Press'.  Perhaps an idea for CVA  !

[namisgr]

Sometimes, you can tell when a book's been 'properly pressed'.  

[Not A Clone]

Might as well add a "apparent damage from poorly packed & shipped by Diamond" label.

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, DevilLand said:

I'm sorry but this is not accurate. Pressing became a huge deal 3-4 years before Borock left CGC, especially when the public found out about PCS. When Borock's name ended up on the PCS incorporation papers the boards went crazy. Borock forced the hobby to accept pressing through questionable means, as he planned it from the very beginning.

 

 

Yes, the PCS announcement was met with disdain by the Boards. Many did not approve of pressing and most saw it as a conflict of interest for CGC. IMO, the scale tipped when Borock starting actively selling pressed books here .  Soon, pressing was not only accepted by the Boards, it was advocated. Later, when CGC hired Matt Nelson in house, there was some grumbling but no real resistance.

[bronze johnny]

On 9/19/2018 at 6:58 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

Yes, the PCS announcement was met with disdain by the Boards. Many did not approve of pressing and most saw it as a conflict of interest for CGC. IMO, the scale tipped when Borock starting actively selling pressed books here .  Soon, pressing was not only accepted by the Boards, it was advocated. Later, when CGC hired Matt Nelson in house, there was some grumbling but no real resistance.

So Borock is the "Founding Father of Pressing Comic Book Pressing?" 

[Bomber-Bob]

41 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

So Borock is the "Founding Father of Pressing Comic Book Pressing?" 

IMO, yes. Though I don't believe he ever pressed a book himself. For a while, everything being pressed was going through Texas, via Matt. CGC wanted to bring pressing inhouse but relinquished to the backlash. At this point, had Borock, as president of CGC, took a different stance, maybe saying something like books would be downgraded for being overly 'flat', we may have had a different development of the hobby. Instead, he went out and starting selling, announcing these books were pressed.

[bronze johnny]

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

IMO, yes. Though I don't believe he ever pressed a book himself. For a while, everything being pressed was going through Texas, via Matt. CGC wanted to bring pressing inhouse but relinquished to the backlash. At this point, had Borock, as president of CGC, took a different stance, maybe saying something like books would be downgraded for being overly 'flat', we may have had a different development of the hobby. Instead, he went out and starting selling, announcing these books were pressed.

Interesting to see if a grading company decides to identify pancake books and note it on the label. The history of pressing books originally defined as restored cannot be changed. The question remains whether pressing will again fall into the restored category. Time will tell since there are plenty of real collectors out there who still hold to the traditional view of pressing. 

Finally, perhaps we should refer to any pressed book as "borocked?"

[Bomber-Bob]

2 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

Interesting to see if a grading company decides to identify pancake books and note it on the label. The history of pressing books originally defined as restored cannot be changed. The question remains whether pressing will again fall into the restored category. Time will tell since there are plenty of real collectors out there who still hold to the traditional view of pressing. 

Finally, perhaps we should refer to any pressed book as "borocked?"

I like that, 'Borocked'. Today, there are some pressers out there that do amazing work, you cannot tell the book was touched. On the flip side there is plenty of amateur and 'professionals in a hurry' that don't look as good. IMO, seeing a high grade book in it's original state, is a thing of beauty. Perhaps the marketplace will someday recognize originality with a collector valuation bump, and not just for the opportunity to press it. I think there currently is a 'bump' for books that look good, better than the assigned grade. The next step is originality. 

[bronze johnny]

8 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I like that, 'Borocked'. Today, there are some pressers out there that do amazing work, you cannot tell the book was touched. On the flip side there is plenty of amateur and 'professionals in a hurry' that don't look as good. IMO, seeing a high grade book in it's original state, is a thing of beauty. Perhaps the marketplace will someday recognize originality with a collector valuation bump, and not just for the opportunity to press it. I think there currently is a 'bump' for books that look good, better than the assigned grade. The next step is originality. 

The market hasn't placed a price on originality yet because no one  has taken the step to "brand" unpressed books. Only a matter of time...

[Logan510]

48 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

The market hasn't placed a price on originality yet because no one  has taken the step to "brand" unpressed books. Only a matter of time...

It hasn't? Then why do we see books that are original owner and unpressed go for such a premium? Not everyone buying books is looking to upgrade them.

Also, I would be willing to bet that some of the people who are very against pressed books probably have some unknowingly in their collection. There are a lot of "experts" on these boards who don't know what they're talking about half the time 

[bronze johnny]

13 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

It hasn't? Then why do we see books that are original owner and unpressed go for such a premium? Not everyone buying books is looking to upgrade them.

Also, I would be willing to bet that some of the people who are very against pressed books probably have some unknowingly in their collection. There are a lot of "experts" on these boards who don't know what they're talking about half the time 

You raise good points. Sure there are original unpressed books selling for premiums. Do you think the numbers of how many are sold come close to those that are pressed? My belief is that we'd see a great deal more original unpressed books if they are identified and verified by a third party grader.

Agree with you on your other points regarding pressed books in collections and the so called "experts." Can only speak for myself and my position concerns how pressing has been historically defined and where we are today. This isn't a zero sum game for me so I'm not one of those that falls into the category of either being for or against pressing.  That said, pressing has been around and will continue to be a part of this hobby and I personally prefer unpressed books (emphasis on preference). The issue remains as to whether it requires identification and if it's correctly categorized. If it's not a type of restoration then identifying whether a book has been pressed or not on a universal label is fine with me. 

[Logan510]

7 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

You raise good points. Sure there are original unpressed books selling for premiums. Do you think the numbers of how many are sold come close to those that are pressed? My belief is that we'd see a great deal more original unpressed books if they are identified and verified by a third party grader.

Agree with you on your other points regarding pressed books in collections and the so called "experts." Can only speak for myself and my position concerns how pressing has been historically defined and where we are today. This isn't a zero sum game for me so I'm not one of those that falls into the category of either being for or against pressing.  That said, pressing has been around and will continue to be a part of this hobby and I personally prefer unpressed books (emphasis on preference). The issue remains as to whether it requires identification and if it's correctly categorized. If it's not a type of restoration then identifying whether a book has been pressed or not on a universal label is fine with me. 

When I first learned about pressing I would say I was a little turned off by the idea of it, but now I don't care. I have bought raw books for my collection that I'm 99% sure have been pressed and they look great and if I didn't know they had been pressed I wouldn't be able to tell, so I end up with a pretty book I'm happy to have.

 Not all pressers are equal either. There are plenty of amateurs out there who considers themselves professionals who do passable to shoddy work.

One "professional" presser I know of claimed he had pressed "nearly 100 books" so now he felt comfortable enough to offer his services publicly.

 

[joeypost]

20 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

When I first learned about pressing I would say I was a little turned off by the idea of it, but now I don't care. I have bought raw books for my collection that I'm 99% sure have been pressed and they look great and if I didn't know they had been pressed I wouldn't be able to tell, so I end up with a pretty book I'm happy to have.

 Not all pressers are equal either. There are plenty of amateurs out there who considers themselves professionals who do passable to shoddy work.

One "professional" presser I know of claimed he had pressed "nearly 100 books" so now he felt comfortable enough to offer his services publicly.

 

100 books, really? That’s an average Wednesday for me. 

[Logan510]

3 minutes ago, joeypost said:

100 books, really? That’s an average Wednesday for me. 

You know who it is, it's the same guy who said he didn't used humidity because "water is the enemy of paper", though he's since changed his tune on that.