Little help? How high can I grade a book with a detached centerfold?
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59 minutes ago, Spidey 62 said:

I have often wondered that.  Is it that difficult to do that and have it go undetected by graders? 

Surely, easier to do and sell raw for a bump. 

as far as I know it it impossible to do-you cannot recreate that unique bend from the stitching machine.  If its the machine that does the flat staples, you can never get it flat again without a kink in it.  If you try to use an implement, it scrapes the staples.  The more you struggle to get it right, the more it starts to tear the staple holes.

Edited by kav

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28 minutes ago, kav said:

as far as I know it it impossible to do-you cannot recreate that unique bend from the stitching machine.  If its the machine that does the flat staples, you can never get it flat again without a kink in it.  If you try to use an implement, it scrapes the staples.  The more you struggle to get it right, the more it starts to tear the staple holes.

Not to mention if you try to open the staple a little more to get it back in the holes, you work harden the steel, making it very likely to break when you try to re-flatten it.

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Just now, SteppinRazor said:

Not to mention if you try to open the staple a little more to get it back in the holes, you work harden the steel, making it very likely to break when you try to re-flatten it.

I've done a lot of staple replacement-its incredibly tricky.  You have to push down hard, but paper is fragile so-

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6 minutes ago, kav said:

I've done a lot of staple replacement-its incredibly tricky.  You have to push down hard, but paper is fragile so-

If you're replacing with a new staple so you aren't stressing the steel, you mean?  I'd probably make a tool - weld a piece of 20ga onto one jaw of a needlenose (goes on the outer cover side), and slide a piece of 22ga between paper and staple leg on the inside, then press staple leg closed with the other needlenose jaw.  Slide out 22ga when done

Edited by SteppinRazor

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7 minutes ago, SteppinRazor said:

If you're replacing with a new staple so you aren't stressing the steel, you mean?  I'd probably make a tool - weld a piece of 20ga onto one jaw of a needlenose (goes on the outer cover side), and slide a piece of 22ga between paper and staple leg on the inside, then press staple leg closed with the other needlenose jaw.  Slide out 22ga when done

what happens is it keeps slipping to the side you have to do over and over and paper begins to shred.

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3 hours ago, kav said:

as far as I know it it impossible to do-you cannot recreate that unique bend from the stitching machine.  If its the machine that does the flat staples, you can never get it flat again without a kink in it.  If you try to use an implement, it scrapes the staples.  The more you struggle to get it right, the more it starts to tear the staple holes.

True... I have often wondered about that. I remembered few times years ago, when I want to remove a cool poster off a comic book. I just pry open carefully each staple to the point where I can pull the poster through the holes straight out. Then I re-bend the staples back, close the comic and put it away. I was a kid then.  And not a bad job. 

But can the graders spot that re-attached staples? I wondered...

if the centrefold is detached, wouldn’t it mean the tears between the staple holes need to be mended to close there, then slide the holes through the points of the original staples. Re-attach fold down. Would it be a green label or a purple label? hm

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3 minutes ago, Fan Boy said:

True... I have often wondered about that. I remembered few times years ago, when I want to remove a cool poster off a comic book. I just pry open carefully each staple to the point where I can pull the poster through the holes straight out. Then I re-bend the staples back, close the comic and put it away. I was a kid then.  And not a bad job. 

But can the graders spot that re-attached staples? I wondered...

if the centrefold is detached, wouldn’t it mean the tears between the staple holes need to be mended to close there, then slide the holes through the points of the original staples. Re-attach fold down. Would it be a green label or a purple label? hm

yes I've used tape to mend the centerfold then re attach the staples.

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21 hours ago, Spidey 62 said:
21 hours ago, Fan Boy said:

I have one CGC book at 6.0 with detached centerfold. It tucked inside quite good, showing slightly out.

Which rise the question: how much impact if the centerfold is restored back with staples folded? I'm sure it would come as "quiftied" but how much?

I finally found a site that had some Overstreet grading standards.  It shows 3.5-4.5 may be detached at one staple.  So I was in the ballpark. 

Thanks to all for the responses. 

That would seem to be for a cover rather than a centerfold, no?

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2 hours ago, mrwoogieman said:
On 9/17/2018 at 4:33 PM, Spidey 62 said:
On 9/17/2018 at 4:01 PM, Fan Boy said:

I have one CGC book at 6.0 with detached centerfold. It tucked inside quite good, showing slightly out.

Which rise the question: how much impact if the centerfold is restored back with staples folded? I'm sure it would come as "quiftied" but how much?

I finally found a site that had some Overstreet grading standards.  It shows 3.5-4.5 may be detached at one staple.  So I was in the ballpark. 

Thanks to all for the responses. 

That would seem to be for a cover rather than a centerfold, no?

This is the text I quoted from.  I confirmed it in my copy.

VERY GOOD (VG) (ONE 3.5-4.5): The average used comic book. A comic in this grade shows some wear, can have a reading or center crease or a moderately rolled spine, but has not accumulated enough total defects to reduce eye appeal to the point that it is not a desirable copy. Some discoloration, fading and even minor soiling is allowed. As much as a ¼’ triangle can be missing out of the corner or edge. A missing square piece (1/8” by 1/8”) is also acceptable. Store stamps, name stamps, arrival dates, initials, etc. have no effect on this grade. Cover and interior pages can have some minor tears and folds and the centerfold may be detached at one staple. The cover may also be loose, but not completely detached.

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the real question is how much does a detached centerfold affect the grade of a book that already is a VG in appearance as is the book in the auction. Keep reading your source and find the grade that mentions "centerfold may be detached". That is the grade.

Edited by Artboy99

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4 hours ago, Spidey 62 said:
7 hours ago, mrwoogieman said:
On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 1:33 PM, Spidey 62 said:
On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 1:01 PM, Fan Boy said:

I have one CGC book at 6.0 with detached centerfold. It tucked inside quite good, showing slightly out.

Which rise the question: how much impact if the centerfold is restored back with staples folded? I'm sure it would come as "quiftied" but how much?

I finally found a site that had some Overstreet grading standards.  It shows 3.5-4.5 may be detached at one staple.  So I was in the ballpark. 

Thanks to all for the responses. 

That would seem to be for a cover rather than a centerfold, no?

This is the text I quoted from.  I confirmed it in my copy.

VERY GOOD (VG) (ONE 3.5-4.5): The average used comic book. A comic in this grade shows some wear, can have a reading or center crease or a moderately rolled spine, but has not accumulated enough total defects to reduce eye appeal to the point that it is not a desirable copy. Some discoloration, fading and even minor soiling is allowed. As much as a ¼’ triangle can be missing out of the corner or edge. A missing square piece (1/8” by 1/8”) is also acceptable. Store stamps, name stamps, arrival dates, initials, etc. have no effect on this grade. Cover and interior pages can have some minor tears and folds and the centerfold may be detached at one staple. The cover may also be loose, but not completely detached.

The key here is grading is performed on an accumulation of defects.  Just because an otherwise Mint book has a centerfold detachment at one staple does not automatically make it a VG book.

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Overstreet Grading Guide is pretty clear. Max would be a 2.5 for a loose or detached centerfold regardless of other issues. I have an ASM 14 that is a 4.5 all day but it has a 1"×1" cut coupon. CGC gave it a 1.0 as that is the highest grade achievable with that defect. Detached centerfolds get the same treatment.

Edited by Krydel4
Clarity

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A couple that just came back this month.

302593017_shadowv210001.thumb.jpg.45468d68af2dfe204f604f2fd5f5e6b4.jpg

The Green Hornet has 2 centerfolds detached (but not noted on label).

1357241116_greenhornet14001.thumb.jpg.9a7d43a58a6b547feb91278815b9745e.jpg

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3 hours ago, walclark said:

A couple that just came back this month.

302593017_shadowv210001.thumb.jpg.45468d68af2dfe204f604f2fd5f5e6b4.jpg

The Green Hornet has 2 centerfolds detached (but not noted on label).

1357241116_greenhornet14001.thumb.jpg.9a7d43a58a6b547feb91278815b9745e.jpg

Where would you grade these books if the centerfolds were attached?  How many points do you think you lost? 

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40 minutes ago, Spidey 62 said:

Where would you grade these books if the centerfolds were attached?  How many points do you think you lost? 

Hard to say.  If I ventured a guess on the Shadow, I would say it cost at least a full grade, maybe a grade and a half.  On the Green Hornet, because it was lower grade to start, I don’t think it had much impact.  Maybe a 0.5 drop? (shrug)

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