Dradake0110 More Jack Kirby autographs than anyone I know 0

[kav]

10 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Beautiful. And authentic. That's Kirby's track and his flow. Everything right, nothing wrong. Everything typical of Kirby's signing mechanics. Slight variations from the "norm" as we all have, but unquestionably Kirby. Again, let's compare:

absolutely.  If I had to put it in words, I dont know that I could.  It just 'looks wrong'.  The others just 'look right'.  Its a right brain function.  The left brain is words.  The one on the TOS cover just looks wrong, awkward, slow.

Edited September 26, 2018 by kav

[namisgr]

10 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

 

I suspect most everyone will agree that the signature appears to be forged.  Far less clear is the authenticity or lack of same of the cover signature on the TOS cover.

Edited September 26, 2018 by namisgr

[James J Johnson]

2 minutes ago, namisgr said:

I suspect most everyone will agree that the signature appears to be forged.  Far less clear is the authenticity or lack of same of the cover signature on the TOS cover.

No sir! That's clearly a forgery as well. Not because of the other forgeries, but because it is, on it's own merits, or should I say de-merits.  

Just like his Lees. He's closer on some, but not close enough that there's any question about their being authentic. None ever approach what I would call, " maybe"

Edited September 26, 2018 by James J Johnson

[kav]

Just now, James J Johnson said:

No sir! That's clearly a forgery as well. Not because of the other forgeries, but because it is, on it's own merits, or should I say de-merits.

Say "de-merits"!

[Pirate]

11 hours ago, namisgr said:

I'm curious.  What do you think the problem is with this one?

i don't know, he signed it on the cover?

[namisgr]

2 minutes ago, Pirate said:

i don't know, he signed it on the cover?

He'd probably have done that if you asked him to.  Signatures back in the day didn't cost anything (the creators loved to have their work recognized and appreciated by adults) and were a low-key process.

[namisgr]

10 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

 My exemplar file of legit Kirbys is numbered up to 219. I'm at a point that I don't have to look at them anymore, I know Kirby that well, IMO.

This thread would benefit from you posting a few of those authentic signatures from your exemplar file.

[Pirate]

1 hour ago, namisgr said:

He'd probably have done that if you asked him to.  Signatures back in the day didn't cost anything (the creators loved to have their work recognized and appreciated by adults) and were a low-key process.

Personally that was the first time i saw his name on a cover.  

[namisgr]

[Pirate]

1 hour ago, namisgr said:

if thats a DF exclusive wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole

[namisgr]

2 minutes ago, Pirate said:

if thats a DF exclusive wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole

So that signature is a forgery also?

[kav]

19 minutes ago, Pirate said:

if thats a DF exclusive wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole

I think I read that Kirby couldnt even hold a pen in 1991.  I think it was Theakson that told me that.

Yes i found the original message from Theakson:
Couple of things, beginning with the date.  Jack couldn't even hold a pencil in 1990.  Second: he didn't draw head shots.  (I mean, he did, once or twice, but they were always Captain America.)  Third: the rendering is totally off.  Jack had a different vocabulary of slashing pencil marks to delineate a character. The shadows, for instance, are inconsistent with how boldly he drew them. This looks more like a riff on Buscema, or someone else educated in the more generic Marvel style.  

Edited September 26, 2018 by kav

[Pirate]

39 minutes ago, namisgr said:

So that signature is a forgery also?

I'm not nor claim to be an expert on Kirby sigs.  I have heard through reliable sources that his wife Roz signed ALOT for him later in his life including DF books with the COA.

[James J Johnson]

4 hours ago, Pirate said:

Personally that was the first time i saw his name on a cover.  

There are 2500 Dynamic Forces commissioned Kirby cover signatures! Aside from these, although rare, and unlike Stan Lee, genuine Kirby cover signatures do exist.

25 years ago and beyond, the trend for comic collectors was to keep the covers clean. Slabbing changed that practice considerably. Since the book is now sealed and splash pages hidden from view, cover signing gradually became the new norm.

[James J Johnson]

7 hours ago, namisgr said:

This thread would benefit from you posting a few of those authentic signatures from your exemplar file.

Yours and the couple of examples of genuine Kirbys posted here should be sufficient to illustrate just how nonsensical this seller's Kirbys are. They look as if written by a different person altogether because they are.

My intention was to critique this seller's forged Kirbys (and Lees), not all Kirbys. Doing so, would constitute this being a tutorial for forgers. It's best to let forgers copy from exemplars that aren't good or at least to be unsure of what they're copying (a forgery from a forgery), rather than to say, "here; copy this one, it's a textbook Kirby", and to explain in any detail why.

While that may seem that I'm unwilling to share, that's not true. I did share that this seller's forgeries should be avoided, and with the addition of your exemplar, that should be enough for most to draw that conclusion and avoid, at least in this case, this seller's groups of forgeries.

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by James J Johnson

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, Pirate said:

his wife Roz signed ALOT for him later in his life including DF books with the COA.

Based on my observation and study of authentic post 1985 Kirby signatures, I share that opinion. Alot, if not all.

The circumstances of how the DF materials to be signed were conveyed to Jack, and then picked up certainly would have made Roz's signature proxy possible.

However, that "indirect" method of conveyance is not the basis for my opinion of Kirby's latter life DF signatures I have seen. The signatures speak for themselves.

Edited September 26, 2018 by James J Johnson

[James J Johnson]

7 hours ago, Pirate said:

i don't know, he signed it on the cover?

It's not just the cover here. The forgery isn't even a decent attempt. This isn't even the bush leagues. But it is the same hand that drew (and I saw drew, because all of his foregeries are not written; they are slowly drawn shaky forgeries) all the rest of his Kirbys and Lees. He did interject his own handwriting into his forgery, as most do; he gave me enough ink, and his hand is now recognizable to me.

[mackenzie999]

I've heard PGX are reaching out to Kirby via seance and are going to have a witnessed signing opportunity via automatic writing.

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, namisgr said:

So that signature is a forgery also?

Likely, what's known in the autograph hobby as, a "secretarial".

[kav]

51 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Yours and the couple of examples of genuine Kirbys posted here should be sufficient to illustrate just how nonsensical this seller's Kirbys are. They look as if written by a different person altogether because they are.

My intention was to critique this seller's forged Kirbys (and Lees), not all Kirbys. Doing so, would constitute this being a tutorial for forgers. It's best to let forgers copy from exemplars that aren't good or at least to be unsure of what they're copying (a forgery from a forgery), rather than to say, "here; copy this one, it's a textbook Kirby", and to explain in any detail why.

While that may seem that I'm unwilling to share, that's not true. I did share that this seller's forgeries should be avoided, and with the addition of your exemplar, that should be enough for most to draw that conclusion and avoid, at least in this case, this seller's groups of forgeries.

 

Excellent decision.  Forgers are currently stuck with the limited number of Kirby sigs they can google.  This makes it easier to backtrack traceries etc.  Posting your huge list of exemplars would be a gold mine for them.  Nor should you PM them to anyone-you have no idea who it will be shared with and who they will share it with, etc.