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Krigstein's 8-page "Master Race" OA at Heritage. How Much?
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Started by NoMan,

123 posts in this topic

delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

I"m gonna be the contrarian and say this will do "less" that expected, because it's historic nature is too esoteric to draw attention.  It would take more than a 30 sec soundbite to explain why a non comic collector should care about this. Now if it was the 1st appearance of Platypus Man?  The hero with a happy meal and a movie and cartoon and halloween costume?  yeah sure, that's easier to explain.  Your age and comic nerd bias may be inflating your estimation of its value.  :sumo:

I'm confident that the story could easily be broken up for $200K without breaking a sweat - $40K for the splash and each of the last two pages gets you to $120K, and then you still have 5 pages at, say, $18K each...that gets you to $210K.  And I think those numbers are probably conservative.  At the very least, I expect a "2" handle in front of the final, all-in price.  I'd be less surprised by a 3, 4 or even higher handle than I would be by a "1" handle.  Heck, I'll throw in a $100K hammer bid as soon as bidding opens, that's how confident I am that it's not going to end anywhere near that price (and I would very gladly pay that much for it). 2c 

As for the "it belongs in a museum" argument, I would agree if it was the Lucas Museum and they had intentions to display it permanently (or, at least for substantial periods of time).  If it was the Billy Ireland Cartoon Library & Museum, where, let's face it, few would ever see it (how many people in the OA hobby - the most serious of OA aficionados - have ever been there?), and it would just essentially be part of a giant archive...eh, I don't see that being much better than the story remaining in the public's hands (and someone would have to buy it and donate it to them; it's not like they're going to buy it themselves).  

I know a number of people who would pay up big-time for a page or two from the story; I kind of sympathize with the idea of letting 8 people having a piece of it for their collection, though, it is the kind of thing that is much cooler as a complete set. 

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glendgold

glendgold

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

 

AIf it was the Billy Ireland Cartoon Library & Museum, where, let's face it, few would ever see it (how many people in the OA hobby - the most serious of OA aficionados - have ever been there?), and it would just essentially be part of a giant archive...eh, I don't see that being much better than the story remaining in the public's hands (and someone would have to buy it and donate it to them; it's not like they're going to buy it themselves). 

Gene, I must lovingly chastise you!  I've been to the Billy Ireland and it's something each and every one of us should do.  Last week was Cartoon Crossroads, their once-a-year celebration of all things comics-based.  It's got academic componants, artists who are in the news (the year I went, the big guest was Garry Trudeau -- this year it was, I kid you not, Olivia Jaimes's first public appearance), and artists whose work is far more popular than any of the stuff we worry about here (Raina Telgemeier).  Also there's art for sale, mostly local artists, so if you're a Bone fan, you can find work by him you won't find anywhere else. 
Beyond the festival, there's the museum.  When I was there they had Calvin & Hobbes and Little Nemos on the walls.  That people could look at.  And if you or I made an appoinment with someone like Jenny Robb, curator, she would give you a charming tour of those archives, and you can look at all the Caniff and Watterson you could imagine. 

If you were saying Ohio is out of the way, you're right.  But it's not just part of a giant archive -- it's on display frequently.  I encourage everyone to visit.

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

 

 

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NoMan

NoMan

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Posted

thanks for all those that gave me some numbers. I'm gonna see if I can get one of those Cash Call speedy loans. Was jut wondering what number I should go into the Cash Call store front here by the liquor store with. Wish me luck guys!

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comix4fun

comix4fun

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Posted
3 hours ago, NoMan said:

I’ll take what  I can get at this point since NO ONE WILL GIVE ME A PRICE!

Alright....I'm putting the floor at $150,000. The ceiling is far far higher depending on the number of parties entering the fray. 
I'd wager Mr. Gaiman may have added at least a few increments to the final tally with his tweet. 

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PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, delekkerste said:

I'm confident that the story could easily be broken up for $200K without breaking a sweat - $40K for the splash and each of the last two pages gets you to $120K, and then you still have 5 pages at, say, $18K each...that gets you to $210K.  And I think those numbers are probably conservative.  At the very least, I expect a "2" handle in front of the final, all-in price.  I'd be less surprised by a 3, 4 or even higher handle than I would be by a "1" handle.  Heck, I'll throw in a $100K hammer bid as soon as bidding opens, that's how confident I am that it's not going to end anywhere near that price (and I would very gladly pay that much for it). 2c 

As for the "it belongs in a museum" argument, I would agree if it was the Lucas Museum and they had intentions to display it permanently (or, at least for substantial periods of time).  If it was the Billy Ireland Cartoon Library & Museum, where, let's face it, few would ever see it (how many people in the OA hobby - the most serious of OA aficionados - have ever been there?), and it would just essentially be part of a giant archive...eh, I don't see that being much better than the story remaining in the public's hands (and someone would have to buy it and donate it to them; it's not like they're going to buy it themselves).  

I know a number of people who would pay up big-time for a page or two from the story; I kind of sympathize with the idea of letting 8 people having a piece of it for their collection, though, it is the kind of thing that is much cooler as a complete set. 

I think it's a legitimate concern to want these pages displayed in a permanent collection, if they are in a Museum setting, rather than sitting in an archive. But, is anyone complaining about the AF #15 art being in the Library of Congress? I think we are all happy it's being properly preserved, and that the public can get a first hand look at it upon request.

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PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
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1 hour ago, comix4fun said:

Alright....I'm putting the floor at $150,000. The ceiling is far far higher depending on the number of parties entering the fray. 
I'd wager Mr. Gaiman may have added at least a few increments to the final tally with his tweet. 

If this art gets a write up in the wall Street Journal or the NYT, it may get some heavy hitters into the bidding. Especially if it gets a nice big write up from, say, Art Spiegelman, who already did one for the New Yorker about 15 years ago.

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The Voord

The Voord

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I think it's a legitimate concern to want these pages displayed in a permanent collection, if they are in a Museum setting, rather than sitting in an archive. But, is anyone complaining about the AF #15 art being in the Library of Congress? I think we are all happy it's being properly preserved, and that the public can get a first hand look at it upon request.

The AF 15 story was donated (likely to be by MS).  Unless a museum steps in to purchase, I can't see the Donnelly Brothers making a gift donation.

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PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, The Voord said:

The AF 15 story was donated (likely to be by MS).  Unless a museum steps in to purchase, I can't see the Donnelly Brothers making a gift donation.

I realize the Donnellys have no interest in donating the art. I was just noting the comparison to the AF 15 art, and that I don't recall anyone being upset that it's in the Library of Congress vs some black hole collection.

Edited by PhilipB2k17
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The Voord

The Voord

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I realize the Donnellys have no interest in donating the art. I was just noting the comparison to the AF 15 art, and that I don't recall anyone being upset that it's in the Library of Congress vs some black hole collection.

Who's upset by art being donated?  Not me, I think it's a wonderful gesture.  Far as I'm aware, the Donnelly Brothers are not noted for their philanthropy?  They serve a different god.  As such, wishful thinking on this one . . .

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PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, The Voord said:

Who's upset by art being donated?  Not me, I think it's a wonderful gesture.  Far as I'm aware, the Donnelly Brothers are not noted for their philanthropy?  They serve a different god.  As such, wishful thinking on this one . . .

I've seen some sentiment in the hobby that it would be a shame for this art to end up stashed in some duty old archive, out of sight, out of mind. But, I think the AF #15 art situations suggests that it would be just fine to be in a permanent museum collection.

Edited by PhilipB2k17
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MyNameIsLegion

MyNameIsLegion

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, The Voord said:

Enjoy your solitary confinement on this one!  ;)

well, I guess I'll be in the cell next to @Timely then.  You guys have only further made the case that it's not the artist (which no one outside the hobby will recognize or appreciate) or the art, or one iconic page, no cover, it's one of the rare examples where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts and breaking it up may in fact devalue it, non-super hero. It's merit and value is invested soley in story and technique in the CGC era where everyone is chasing 1st appearances, iconic covers, and that mindset has started to creep into the OA collecting corner. AND, its 60 years old, so the demographic that bought this off the stands will not be bidding at all. Will it hit six figures? Sure, Neil Gaiman or Gene will guarantee that! But Kirk Hammett isn't going to swoop in and scoop this up like it's a Frazetta and make the news.  4-5 guys will determine the outcome, while everyone else is eating popcorn.  Not unless 2 of those guys have more money than sense will it break 300K.

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