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#comicsgate and your collecting habits
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61 posts in this topic

31 minutes ago, MagnusX said:

People are not Pigs,
If he deserve something good or bad
so do you, me and everyone else...!

 

Did you read what he did and what he said? 

Not everyone has taken the same actions, believe the same beliefs, and said the same things. So they don't deserve the same repercussions for those actions, beliefs and words. 

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7 hours ago, artdealer said:

That piece of art would be in the trash, if it were me.

I hear you and completely understand. But somehow I cannot get myself to destroy it. I could not in good faith sell it to someone while hiding the true story of the artist. And I would not want to sell it to someone who would want to buy it knowing the back story. So I guess I am stuck with it.

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12 minutes ago, hmendryk said:

I hear you and completely understand. But somehow I cannot get myself to destroy it. I could not in good faith sell it to someone while hiding the true story of the artist. And I would not want to sell it to someone who would want to buy it knowing the back story. So I guess I am stuck with it.

That is fine. You could also consider something out of the box, crowdsourcing the destruction of the art for charity or something. You have it now, you could use the awkward buying circumstances to raise awareness of the hate the guy spewed. etc. You have no obligations to anyone obviously. I was trying to buy a collection here on the boards and it contains Hansi.I told my wife about the book and that we would destroy it if I got the collection. The guy ghosted me so it is all moot but yeah, these things suck.

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31 minutes ago, hmendryk said:

I hear you and completely understand. But somehow I cannot get myself to destroy it. I could not in good faith sell it to someone while hiding the true story of the artist. And I would not want to sell it to someone who would want to buy it knowing the back story. So I guess I am stuck with it.

Harry,

its your art. Do with it as you want.

my opinion is it would never be in my collection, knowing what I do about that pig. 

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10 hours ago, hmendryk said:

I recently picked up this piece by Adrian Syaf and Mark Morales at the New York Comic Con. I did not know of Syaf's work at the time and it was only when I later googled him that I found out about his being fired from Marvel for his use of Easter eggs with anti-Semitic and anti-Christian references. Or about his later statements about the incident that are also anti-Semitic. I have asked myself if I knew about this at the time would I have bought it, and to be honest I just do not know.

 

InhumansVsX-Men4.jpg

If it makes you feel any better it’s a blueline that Syaf never touched. 

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15 hours ago, hmendryk said:

I hear you and completely understand. But somehow I cannot get myself to destroy it. I could not in good faith sell it to someone while hiding the true story of the artist. And I would not want to sell it to someone who would want to buy it knowing the back story. So I guess I am stuck with it.

I haven't read Syaf's comments, but I wouldn't destroy the artwork, either.

But Bird had a great idea. If it bothers you to own the piece, why not donate it to a charity that promotes a positive message? Perhaps a Christian organization, if you want a little irony with your donation. That way, your purchase becomes goes towards good works and you're not "stuck with it". 

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After much thought, I have decided to keep this piece. While I certainly do not support Syaf's beliefs, I find no objectionable references in this particular piece of art. And I very much doubt that the inker Mark Morales shares Syaf's viewpoint. In the end I find it a powerful piece of art and so will keep it. But I understand that some find Syaf objectionable so I have removed it from my CAF galleries.

Thanks to those who have shared their opinions. I may not have followed them but I do appreciate them.

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https://news.artnet.com/market/hitler-auction-450000-310065

From 2015:

“A group of 14 paintings, watercolors, and drawings by Adolf Hitler went under the hammer at the Weilder auction house in Nuremberg this weekend, collectively fetching €400,000 ($450,000).

The most expensive work, which fetched €100,000, went to a buyer from China. The painting is of King Ludwig II’s Neuschwanstein Castle, which is now a popular tourist attraction. A floral still life sold for €73,000..”

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46 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

https://news.artnet.com/market/hitler-auction-450000-310065

From 2015:

“A group of 14 paintings, watercolors, and drawings by Adolf Hitler went under the hammer at the Weilder auction house in Nuremberg this weekend, collectively fetching €400,000 ($450,000).

The most expensive work, which fetched €100,000, went to a buyer from China. The painting is of King Ludwig II’s Neuschwanstein Castle, which is now a popular tourist attraction. A floral still life sold for €73,000..”

And........?

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18 hours ago, artdealer said:

Syaf is a pig. Anything bad that happens to him, he deserves it. 

I suppose he had to compensate for his minimal talent. 

 

18 hours ago, MagnusX said:

People are not Pigs,
If he deserve something good or bad
so do you, me and everyone else...!

 

 

18 hours ago, artdealer said:

Maybe, but he still is a pig 

 

18 hours ago, comix4fun said:

Did you read what he did and what he said? 

Not everyone has taken the same actions, believe the same beliefs, and said the same things. So they don't deserve the same repercussions for those actions, beliefs and words. 

 

17 hours ago, artdealer said:

Maybe MagnusX is an anti-Semite. 

Seems he supports Syaf’s hate-spewing c.r.a.p. 

This reply seems way, way out of line purely as a response to what Magnus actually wrote. I actually considered reporting the comment it is so ridiculous, and I've never done anything of the the sort.

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I don't think what syaf did was right by any stretch of the imagination I.e., inserting his religious views into the book. Having said that,  we have to take a step back and look at what he actually did. He put references to a march in indonesia and quoted a reference to the quran. The specific reference being that muslims should not be led by non-muslims specifically jews and Christians alike. Is that anti Semitic or just plain cold logic ? Think the verse also means any religion that is not Muslim. Would the fact that a political office nominee having a different faith affect your views on voting for him ? If that's hate speech, then it's Ardian quoting from a book which can be easily purchased in the US. I remember when Obama's citizenship and religion was an issue. Granted it was right that action be taken against ardian but an anti Semite. I'm not so sure. In his view, he is just being obedient to his faith. 

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1 hour ago, Grendel72 said:

I don't think what syaf did was right by any stretch of the imagination I.e., inserting his religious views into the book. Having said that,  we have to take a step back and look at what he actually did. He put references to a march in indonesia and quoted a reference to the quran. The specific reference being that muslims should not be led by non-muslims specifically jews and Christians alike. Is that anti Semitic or just plain cold logic ? Think the verse also means any religion that is not Muslim. Would the fact that a political office nominee having a different faith affect your views on voting for him ? If that's hate speech, then it's Ardian quoting from a book which can be easily purchased in the US. I remember when Obama's citizenship and religion was an issue. Granted it was right that action be taken against ardian but an anti Semite. I'm not so sure. In his view, he is just being obedient to his faith. 

The specific translation of the verse he referenced in X-men is:

"O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies.

"They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them.

"Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people."

So it's not just "don't be led" it's don't take as allies, do no work with or befriend. 

And if you work or align with them you aren't Muslim, but one of them instead.

And that final line.....basically states if you are Christian or Jew you are, by holding those beliefs, "wrong doing people.

If you believe that Christians are wrong doing people being, you hold "anti-christian" views, if you believe that Jewish people are wrong doing people, you hold "anti-jewish/semitic" views.

Maybe it was a coincidence, but in a two page spread in the same issue where Syaf included a reference ("212") the protests by conservative Islamist groups in Jakarta. He had Kitty Pryde, a character who is Jewish, standing in front of a crowd and speaking. 

1339357429_X-mengoldlarge.thumb.png.3dd93d36269e8e157e9aba6ee1829aaa.png

 

Zoom in on Kitty....the store sign she's partially obscuring "Jewelry" , the three clear letters showing are J-E-W. 

1161545993_X-mengoldkitty.jpg.779bd7663d719e73e7edc265ac962f4f.jpg

Without the other references in the book it wouldn't mean much of anything. Taken in the context of those other references, he loses the benefit of the doubt. 

 

So it's extraordinarily charitable to translate what he included in that book as simply  "don't be led" alone. 

 

Edited by comix4fun
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38 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

The specific translation of the verse he referenced in X-men is:

"O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies.

"They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them.

"Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people."

So it's not just "don't be led" it's don't take as allies, do no work with or befriend. 

And if you work or align with them you aren't Muslim, but one of them instead.

And that final line.....basically states if you are Christian or Jew you are, by holding those beliefs, "wrong doing people.

If you believe that Christians are wrong doing people being, you hold "anti-christian" views, if you believe that Jewish people are wrong doing people, you hold "anti-jewish/semitic" views.

Maybe it was a coincidence, but in a two page spread in the same issue where Syaf included a reference ("212") the protests by conservative Islamist groups in Jakarta. He had Kitty Pryde, a character who is Jewish, standing in front of a crowd and speaking. 

1339357429_X-mengoldlarge.thumb.png.3dd93d36269e8e157e9aba6ee1829aaa.png

 

Zoom in on Kitty....the store sign she's partially obscuring "Jewelry" , the three clear letters showing are J-E-W. 

1161545993_X-mengoldkitty.jpg.779bd7663d719e73e7edc265ac962f4f.jpg

Without the other references in the book it wouldn't mean much of anything. Taken in the context of those other references, he loses the benefit of the doubt. 

 

So it's extraordinarily charitable to translate what he included in that book as simply  "don't be led" alone. 

 

No doubt on the first part of what you're talking about, the 'Jewelry' part is certainly more subjective. Hiding it further by making the second 'E' and the 'L' fully visible suggests, if he did do it with intent, that he knew that what he was doing was in tremendously poor taste and he felt enough shame or fear in doing so to add those extra two characters as camouflage.

Of course, the 'Jewelry' sign may be a complete coincidence, but after the rest, I see no strong reason to be too charitable in my view on this. I do hope Mr. Ardian learns something from all of this situation, it is true that some people have realized the error of their ways in similar scenarios, but in general, I tend toward the old adage that 'people don't change' and look forward to being pleasantly surprised if I'm ever proven wrong.

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3 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

This reply seems way, way out of line purely as a response to what Magnus actually wrote. I actually considered reporting the comment it is so ridiculous, and I've never done anything of the the sort.

On a positive note
I have to say that the "Ignored User" option
works WAY BETTER now
that the previous forum...

Thanks to Architecht ..!

(thumbsu

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On 9/30/2018 at 12:09 PM, comix4fun said:

Differing political views, in the traditional sense, never bothered me in the artists I collect. People can carry differing view of what works best for the betterment of all with neither being seen as an "enemy" or a "monster" etc. 

Where I draw the line is when creators reveal more "hate-based" opinions or stances, or where a creator has been convicted of a crime involving something prurient, violent, or the like. I don't view those as differences of political opinion as much as character flaws because there's no excuse for espousing hatred, for example, (whether it be along racial, ethnic, gender, or other lines) even if it is couched in political jargon. 

Very hard to look at pieces the same way when so much of the piece's appreciation for me is who the creator is, if that creator espouses stances that are based in hate, intolerance, racism, etc. 

Somebody say Winsor Mccay political cartoon?

image.jpg

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Correct me if I am wrong here, but is Adrian Syaf making any money off of this sale? Or your continued possession of it? If not, it's just a piece of art. No one is expecting you go out to dinner with him.

I'm not particularly offended by what he wrote, either. Why is it okay for artists and writers to voice their views on politics in their work, but not their religion?
  

 

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8 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

okay for artists and writers to voice their views on politics in their work, but not their religion?
  

To me it is one thing to write a political character and quite another to hide political messages in the work like a trojan horse.

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2 hours ago, Bird said:

To me it is one thing to write a political character and quite another to hide political messages in the work like a trojan horse.

But if they are hidden does it matter? Is he trying to start a revolution for his followers, like in a plot for a movie?

I don't think for a second that the reference to jewelry store was accidentally placed near Kitty Pride. But it doesn't offend me, and I'm Jewish. It just tells me that the artist is somewhat juvenile in his outlook. And while I don't care for Mel Gibson's comments over the years about Jews, I still like his movies. If I cam across a piece of his I liked, from Phantom Stranger no. 42, I would buy it.

Edited by Rick2you2
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