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#comicsgate and your collecting habits
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61 posts in this topic

I have something like 32 pieces of art on my walls, mostly comic art. My wife saw the #comicsgate controversy that has been happening online and mentioned it to me; I told her that we have art on the walls by artists on both sides of the divide. (She knows we have Sienkiewicz as she follows him on twitter.) She gave me a look and said something like "I am not sure that I like that" but I have no intention to change anything out. I have an editorial cartoon by Winsor McCay on the wall but it is more patriotic than political but I guess that I wouldn't have it there if it was about something I find offensive. I am not going to move the Sienkiewicz next to the Bretweiser or anything but in the current political climate where few talk and most yell I wonder if any of the pieces can be "ruined" for me.

So do you fear hearing the political views of your comic heroes? (This thread is NOT about those views, or even your views, but IF it bothers you when those views are not complimentary to yours.)

I must admit though, the wife has me thinking about it. :sumo:

I remember being in line with a lurker here who told me about how he almost came to blows with Barry Windsor-Smith and that BWS better not start that again this time. We have perhaps met our heroes who can be rude, is this issue different or just more of the same?

 

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2 hours ago, comix4fun said:

Differing political views, in the traditional sense, never bothered me in the artists I collect. People can carry differing view of what works best for the betterment of all with neither being seen as an "enemy" or a "monster" etc. 

Where I draw the line is when creators reveal more "hate-based" opinions or stances, or where a creator has been convicted of a crime involving something prurient, violent, or the like. I don't view those as differences of political opinion as much as character flaws because there's no excuse for espousing hatred, for example, (whether it be along racial, ethnic, gender, or other lines) even if it is couched in political jargon. 

Very hard to look at pieces the same way when so much of the piece's appreciation for me is who the creator is, if that creator espouses stances that are based in hate, intolerance, racism, etc. 

Most art in this hobby is also collaborative. Dave Sim was (ave May still be) a misogynistic asswhole. Yet Gerhard, his brilliant collaborator on Cerebus, is as decent a person as there is. Would I turn down a great Cerebus page by Sim/Gerhard? No. 

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I have no problem right, left, or center.

I do avoid supporting those who push hate speech and division. I picked up a couple Van Sciver pieces when he was on Green Lantern. His behavior since has been reprehensible.

I also passed on Syaf due to his promoting hate.

It also seems like Van Sciver being out in the open and divisive has hurt his collectors. And I see more, "I won't buy his stuff" comments about either of those two on facebook than I do anywhere else.

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42 minutes ago, Bill C said:

I think what's dangerous is people citing someone is using hate speech, when in reality they are doing nothing of the sort.

That's not really what the thread is supposed to be about.

If you want to have a back and forth about what a dirtbag EVS is you can d.m. me. I'm not terribly interested in that discussion though.

45 minutes ago, Bill C said:

he's crowdfunding a one shot comic and the $ that came in is absolutely insane

Also not the topic.

He may be making money from crowdfunding but based on my observations his o.a. doesn't have much resale value a.t.m.

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Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess for me it is more a case of art I already own that has me thinking. Not really thinking about taking it down but thinking about what it means to me, if anything. I am leaning towards it meaning little to nothing. Buying new art, it might influence me more if buying directly from the artist but seeing as I am looking at art by deceased artists for the most part it may just be moot.

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It just seems a bit insane to me, in this day and age the hurdles to creating your own comic seem to be so much lower than in the past.

I'm all for the free market.  Go create, and if it's something that has a market then it seems that it's not that hard for those people to find your products with social media.

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16 minutes ago, Panelfan1 said:

Can someone explain #comicsgate? Who are the  players and what is the issue that could turn off a collector from enjoying the art they already own?

Thanks for asking, I did some reading around myself and there isn't a very clear explanation. I think it all unfolds in real time and in places not easily tracked and synthesized. In short, some creators think the liberal bent to comics is ruining things. Sides are formed, people argue on Twitter. Boycotts are called. But I couldn't find a clear list of who is on which team and why. 

 

Honestly I am more interested in hearing Barry Windsor Smith stories.

 

And one can only imagine how things would be if all of the Golden Age crowd were still with us.

Edited by cstojano
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10 hours ago, Bird said:

I have something like 32 pieces of art on my walls, mostly comic art. My wife saw the #comicsgate controversy that has been happening online and mentioned it to me; I told her that we have art on the walls by artists on both sides of the divide. (She knows we have Sienkiewicz as she follows him on twitter.) She gave me a look and said something like "I am not sure that I like that" but I have no intention to change anything out. I have an editorial cartoon by Winsor McCay on the wall but it is more patriotic than political but I guess that I wouldn't have it there if it was about something I find offensive. I am not going to move the Sienkiewicz next to the Bretweiser or anything but in the current political climate where few talk and most yell I wonder if any of the pieces can be "ruined" for me.

So do you fear hearing the political views of your comic heroes? (This thread is NOT about those views, or even your views, but IF it bothers you when those views are not complimentary to yours.)

I must admit though, the wife has me thinking about it. :sumo:

I remember being in line with a lurker here who told me about how he almost came to blows with Barry Windsor-Smith and that BWS better not start that again this time. We have perhaps met our heroes who can be rude, is this issue different or just more of the same?

 

It doesn't affect my collecting.  Sometimes it's good not to meet your heroes.  Most of the time I've met my heroes in sports or in comics, things have not been that great.  No one can live up to the expectations that we put on people we admire.  

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Thanks for the explaining.  

Seems like something that will pass in a year or 2. Meanwhike, will try and focus on art and avoid getting involved in such a distraction. Hopefully comics will be better in the long run thanks to arguments and solutions from arguments such as these.

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14 hours ago, Bill C said:

I think what's dangerous is people citing someone is using hate speech, when in reality they are doing nothing of the sort. I see a lot of that daily. I think a lot of it comes down to people's POV, which may or may not be skewed. Most of the problems seem to come down to people being offended incredibly easily, and labeling anything they don't like as hate speech. 

 

This.

We get a lot of it in British politics.  Political Correctness, we call it.

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9 hours ago, Peter L said:

My hope is that this is a neutrally written summary.  I would follow this issue on social media but finally it just broke my heart and started to sap away my love of comics so I stopped trying to follow along.

EVS has a video blog and he discusses his opinions...

Responding to this Peter L summary with the assumption that it covers the bases pretty well. I wasn't aware of this before this thread and otherwise don't really care; the preceding sentence is to cover any yahoos that will criticize what follows on some minutiae that wasn't summarized by Peter L and that I'm not aware of...cuz there's always at least one of those types lurking about ;)

There is an agenda. It's to make money. And right now SWJ's are the big spend demographic and all (or most) the media companies can/will cater to that. Duh. And just like a lot of people used to be uncomfortable with the N-word going all the way back decades and even a hundred years ago, few spoke up because of the prevailing demographic. Same with dirty jokes in mixed company (or even unmixed!) and pin-ups in cubicles. Not everybody was down with one, the other, any of them, whatever but what a dork, right, the guy that didn't laugh at the "joke". Yeah? Now it's the reverse for all the SWJ talking points...probably very few wholly subscribe to the entire position platform, but to disagree with any isn't worth the trouble of being labeled "Steve Bannon-ish" alt-right, or similar, whether actually true or not. Easier to just stfu until you get home among your own and then rail at the wife (or husband) about the stupidity etc of the human race...broadly. Clearly...there were a lot of votes for Trump, cast mostly in anonymity, something that wasn't going to happen by shoving a camera in somebody's face and asking them pre-Nov who they were going to vote for, to possibly be later broadcast on TV or YouTube. Shee-out...families were very split internally on the same subject, and didn't even know it! (Because who wanted to be on the "wrong" side of that question and be compelled to "justify" it somehow?!) Same as it used to be if you were a woman in a man's world or a color in a white world 'back in the day'. But those that need to SELL...they go where the money is and WILL be spent. And I think that's the SWJ crowd all day long. Or rather that's the perception and maybe there is a case of pandering to the LCD here too? Because comic editors/publishers...they've always sort of painted with really broad strokes and alienated so many at the same time. We just happen to be a crossroads here demographically with a lot of social subjects on the table, the comics (imo) haven't gotten particularly better, and they were never all that good...if you were older than 12 years old :)

Because I always separate the quality of a creation from the creator's private life, the first I care about and the second is curiosity at best, I'll just post this image of an excellent book with no further need for me to comment...

61E9ynQ4fqL._SX326_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

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19 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Most art in this hobby is also collaborative. Dave Sim was (ave May still be) a misogynistic asswhole. Yet Gerhard, his brilliant collaborator on Cerebus, is as decent a person as there is. Would I turn down a great Cerebus page by Sim/Gerhard? No. 

Dave Sim was not/ is not what you state.  I’ve known the man for over 30 years.

What is your personal experience/connection to him to draw such a conclusion?

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3 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Dave Sim was not/ is not what you state.  I’ve known the man for over 30 years.

What is your personal experience/connection to him to draw such a conclusion?

Philip can speak for himself but my similar impression is based solely on what Denise Loubert publicized about Dave and their relationship. Only remembering that from the 80s CBG news era...I've always considered it just one side of the story but hardly the only side. It just happens to be the only side I'm aware of. What that has to do with buying or not buying Cerebus/art...that is beyond me. One that is bothered however could wonder if they should support Gerhard, as he worked with Dave for so long, something which could be consider approval of "Dave" (whatever that means) of a sort. Again...I do not give a sheep.

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