Request: Grader Notes for all books below 9.8 1 1

[Bomber-Bob]

14 hours ago, JollyComics said:

10 - no note needed.

9.9 - one tiny note

9.8 - one teeny weeny note

9.6 - one little note

9.4 - one or two compact note

go on....

If this is true, and they are giving notes on the uber grades, what are we complaining about here ?

[Bomber-Bob]

2 hours ago, YouFoundDonon said:

I'd like to get a response from CGC on this as well. I submitted what I feel is a clear 9.8 for an Uncanny Xmen 266. I even submitted this for a press just to ensure the comic was without any creases or bends after extensive analyzing every inch of the book in light. The comic came back today at a 9.6 White Pages with no grader notes(SHIPPED). I understand, the smallest things can remove it from being a 9.8, but without grader notes I am rather upset. I called and spoke with a Customer Service rep who told me they are not guaranteed, and there is nothing I can do but resubmit the comic. I'd like some clarification on how my comic was a 9.6, and not a 9.8. I've submitted hundreds of books to CGC, my friends have and my clients and I have never been more confident in a book being primed for a 9.8. 

Customer Service stated they are going to look for the book before it ships and will call me(I am not holding my breath). I just do not agree with any books, when submitted for grading with a membership, not returning with small notes being so close to a 9.8. 

 

What is often overlooked are fingerprints, loose/bent staple, tiny fuzzy at the staple hole, not just creases or bends. And don't forget about the interior, maybe a loose centerfold,maybe one of the pages has a bend or tear. IMO, the notion that a press will ensure a better shot at a 9.8 on what appears to be a flawless comic is dangerous. Sometimes, the press itself will introduce the slightest damage . Good luck with your review. They often relent just because it's not worth the hassle !

[JollyComics]

37 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

If this is true, and they are giving notes on the uber grades, what are we complaining about here ?

My guess is that we complain about the blank notes after paying big bucks. The mystery goes on.

[The Lions Den]

2 minutes ago, JollyComics said:

My guess is that we complain about the blank notes after paying big bucks. The mystery goes on.

I completely understand the frustration, but as the saying goes: "You'll have that..."   

[Bomber-Bob]

16 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I completely understand the frustration, but as the saying goes: "You'll have that..."   

I don't think people realize how much time the notes add to the whole process.  I just hope these same people demanding notes don't complain about TAT's. I believe notes were originally intended to pass along between graders, inhouse stuff. The availability of sharing with the public was originally just a courtesy. Then, non-customers starting seeing them as info for CPR candidates in the secondary market. Realizing this, CGC starting charging for notes but FREE to the submitter, never promising availability. Now, they want the notes available, detailed, and complete. A monster has been created.

[Bomber-Bob]

49 minutes ago, JollyComics said:

My guess is that we complain about the blank notes after paying big bucks. The mystery goes on.

See my comments above replying to the Lion. The notes are free to the submitter, no bucks involved. If you are spending the big bucks on a high tier, then yes, the notes should be there. Not so sure if there should be an obligation for 9.8's in a cheap tier. What is the point of notes on a 9.8 ? Are we CPRing for 9.9's now ?

[JollyComics]

2 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

See my comments above replying to the Lion. The notes are free to the submitter, no bucks involved. If you are spending the big bucks on a high tier, then yes, the notes should be there. Not so sure if there should be an obligation for 9.8's in a cheap tier. What is the point of notes on a 9.8 ? Are we CPRing for 9.9's now ?

I can empathize CGC graders being exasperating, intensely irritating or infuriating of nonsense. They grade the books all the day everyday every week every month and their eyeballs can be popped out. Little time to make a note each book I can understand well.

Right now, you can get Batman Damned #1. They graded 7 @ 10.0 and 9 @ 9.9. You don't need to CPR those books.

Edited October 15, 2018 by JollyComics

[gregwynn]

On 10/12/2018 at 11:25 AM, Bomber-Bob said:

I'm not sure I understand the details. Are you saying the rejects were shipped separately from the graded books or are you saying that you submitted your prescreen divided into 2 invoices. Please be more specific. Sorry.

I sent more than 25 books both times( 46 and 27). So each submission has 2 invoices. One invoice on each submission had grader notes. Each invoice shipped separately with the rejects with them.

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by gregwynn

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 10/15/2018 at 9:32 AM, Bomber-Bob said:

On 10/15/2018 at 6:52 AM, YouFoundDonon said:

I'd like to get a response from CGC on this as well. I submitted what I feel is a clear 9.8 for an Uncanny Xmen 266. I even submitted this for a press just to ensure the comic was without any creases or bends after extensive analyzing every inch of the book in light. The comic came back today at a 9.6 White Pages with no grader notes(SHIPPED). I understand, the smallest things can remove it from being a 9.8, but without grader notes I am rather upset. I called and spoke with a Customer Service rep who told me they are not guaranteed, and there is nothing I can do but resubmit the comic. I'd like some clarification on how my comic was a 9.6, and not a 9.8. I've submitted hundreds of books to CGC, my friends have and my clients and I have never been more confident in a book being primed for a 9.8. 

Customer Service stated they are going to look for the book before it ships and will call me(I am not holding my breath). I just do not agree with any books, when submitted for grading with a membership, not returning with small notes being so close to a 9.8. 

 

What is often overlooked are fingerprints, loose/bent staple, tiny fuzzy at the staple hole, not just creases or bends. And don't forget about the interior, maybe a loose centerfold,maybe one of the pages has a bend or tear. IMO, the notion that a press will ensure a better shot at a 9.8 on what appears to be a flawless comic is dangerous. Sometimes, the press itself will introduce the slightest damage . Good luck with your review. They often relent just because it's not worth the hassle !

YouFoundDonon is an excellent example of what I'm referring to. A small grader note might have mollified him/her (as it occasionally does with me) to the point that I mentioned before: "yeah, ok I see where you're coming from. I accept your conclusion. Next!"

Instead, there was a call to customer service, which I guarantee you took more time than it would have to add that small note.

Another perfect example: I recently subbed a Shadowman #8 SS that came back 9.6. Now, I selected that book from several dozen myself, and made sure it was of usual 9.8 quality...but I apparently missed a small bit of foreign debris on an interior page, which was the grader note. It happens. I'll assume I was the one who missed it, and it wasn't introduced by anyone at CGC. And with that note, I'm perfectly fine with that book being a 9.6, and I will likely crack it, see if it can be fixed, and resubmit it. If it can't be fixed, I might resub it anyways. But it will be on my dime. Had I not gotten the note, I would have put it in the "goes back for review" pile, and I would have wasted my time and money. 

So, not only did that little note help CGC, it helped me. 

Everyone wins.

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 10/15/2018 at 10:35 AM, Bomber-Bob said:

I don't think people realize how much time the notes add to the whole process.  I just hope these same people demanding notes don't complain about TAT's. I believe notes were originally intended to pass along between graders, inhouse stuff. The availability of sharing with the public was originally just a courtesy. Then, non-customers starting seeing them as info for CPR candidates in the secondary market. Realizing this, CGC starting charging for notes but FREE to the submitter, never promising availability. Now, they want the notes available, detailed, and complete. A monster has been created.

I've never complained about TATs, unless there was something else involved that exacerbated them. Let's not get off-track talking about notes for 9.8s. As 9.8 is the de facto highest grade, I don't think anyone has an issue if they're not included.

Notes are only FREE to the submitter so long as the invoices are on your account. Once they roll off...no more free notes.

[Tony S]

On 10/15/2018 at 12:35 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

I don't think people realize how much time the notes add to the whole process.  I just hope these same people demanding notes don't complain about TAT's. I believe notes were originally intended to pass along between graders, inhouse stuff. The availability of sharing with the public was originally just a courtesy. Then, non-customers starting seeing them as info for CPR candidates in the secondary market. Realizing this, CGC starting charging for notes but FREE to the submitter, never promising availability. Now, they want the notes available, detailed, and complete. A monster has been created.

What Bob has said here. 

I've not replied to this thread before but Bob came really close to what I would say.   Grading notes take time. And they will NEVER be a complete, 100% accurate list of every single defect. They are just the defects the grader's took time to write down. 

I would also add that graders notes are a double edged sword for sellers. Take Voldy books - which always have graders notes.  Why do their 9.8's sometimes/oftentimes sell for less? I would suggest part of the reason is CGC 9.8's have no graders notes.  Voldy has them. So a Voldy 9.8 looks less "perfect" to the buying public simply because it has (freely available) notes listing a few tiny defects. While CGC's 9.8's do not. 

Be careful what you ask for. IMHO things are fine just as they are. No changes are needed here. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Tony S

[RockMyAmadeus]

23 minutes ago, Tony S said:

Be careful what you ask for. IMHO things are fine just as they are. No changes are needed here. 

Well, they'll have to weigh the one...time it takes to have grader's notes on 9.6s...over the other...time it takes to field questions and reviews on books that graded that or lower...and, hopefully, do the math.

It may be that it takes less time to deal with reviews and customer service issues. But I think you may have misunderstood the thrust of my point: notes need not be exhaustive, nor am I asking for such. I am only asking for a note...like, I dunno "light scuff top of spine"...by which I can say "ok, sure, I know what they are referring to, I can compare when the book gets back, and I can accept their grade, rather than waste my time and money asking for this stack of books to be reviewed further down the line.

As someone who has given detailed notes to many customers, I'm very much aware of how much time it takes...and such detail as I go into is wholly unnecessary...but it is invaluable to the customer. 

AND...you must also consider that for perhaps 99% of all the books they grade that don't get 9.8, they are already supplying notes. It's not as if they're being asked to do something they don't already do the vast majority of the time. Just tip it from 99% of the time to 100%.

And, as you can see by the results of the poll...I am overwhelmingly not alone in that. 

That aside, CBCS' 9.8 books sell for less not because they have notes...which I daresay, 90% or more of the buying public doesn't even bother looking up...but because confidence in CBCS is low, for all sorts of reasons. And there need not be notes on a 9.8, the de facto highest grade available.

[Tony S]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Well, they'll have to weigh the one...time it takes to have grader's notes on 9.6s...over the other...time it takes to field questions and reviews on books that graded that or lower...and, hopefully, do the math.

It may be that it takes less time to deal with reviews and customer service issues. But I think you may have misunderstood the thrust of my point: notes need not be exhaustive, nor am I asking for such. I am only asking for a note...like, I dunno "light scuff top of spine"...by which I can say "ok, sure, I know what they are referring to, I can compare when the book gets back, and I can accept their grade, rather than waste my time and money asking for this stack of books to be reviewed further down the line.

As someone who has given detailed notes to many customers, I'm very much aware of how much time it takes...and such detail as I go into is wholly unnecessary...but it is invaluable to the customer. 

AND...you must also consider that for perhaps 99% of all the books they grade that don't get 9.8, they are already supplying notes. It's not as if they're being asked to do something they don't already do the vast majority of the time. Just tip it from 99% of the time to 100%.

And, as you can see by the results of the poll...I am overwhelmingly not alone in that. 

That aside, CBCS' 9.8 books sell for less not because they have notes...which I daresay, 90% or more of the buying public doesn't even bother looking up...but because confidence in CBCS is low, for all sorts of reasons. And there need not be notes on a 9.8, the de facto highest grade available.

One of the reasons I think highly of you    and a few others here and your comments is that you - like I - are not afraid to take the  contrarian, unpopular position. No, you are not alone in your viewpoint. Nor however am I. You just enjoy the majority.   There was a time when the majority opinion was that Raidthor - radioactive water - was healthy. Rich people that could afford it drank for health reasons.. Until their jaws fell off... Just sayin... 

Right now, today, I believe you are correct in your opinion about why Voldy 9.8's will often sell for less. But that wasn't the case three years ago, when praise of Voldy was so high the mods here made a "no promotion of competitors" rule and SB jokes (similar to Chuck Norris jokes) were all the rage. And even today it really depends on what venue the sales take place. My own personal experience was a Star Wars 1 9.8 on Comic Link.  That auction there was my Voldy 9.8 and a CGC 9.8 selling just 90 seconds apart. The CGC one sold for about $150 more.  The Voldy one actually presented better. No white on the bone, structurally perfect. But it had several absolutely minor grading notes, the CGC none. BTW, no  sour grapes on my part. I sold the book when Star Wars 1 was ridiculously overhyped and over priced. I could buy it back today for 1/2 of what it sold for. I owned several copies and sold my "regular" 9.8's and kept the signed #1's.  Cash in when the timing is right...

So sure. On Facebook and eBay it is the great unwashed. Most wouldn't know that grading notes even exist. On ComicLink??? That's not the case. Bidders read the grading notes -and decided the lack thereof meant the CGC was more "perfect". As someone that sells the majority of what I slab, I'm fine with a lack of grading notes.  As far as learning how CGC grades, there is no substitute for cracking the book and looking. Sure - it costs money. But knowledge is seldom free.  

Edited October 23, 2018 by Tony S

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, Tony S said:

One of the reasons I think highly of you    and a few others here and your comments is that you - like I - are not afraid to take the  contrarian, unpopular position. No, you are not alone in your viewpoint. Nor however am I. You just enjoy the majority.   There was a time when the majority opinion was that Raidthor - radioactive water - was healthy. Rich people that could afford it drank for health reasons.. Until their jaws fell off... Just sayin... 

That was the most backhanded compliment I've ever seen.

Hopefully, adding grader's notes won't make people's jaws fall off.

[Tony S]

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

That was the most backhanded compliment I've ever seen.

Hopefully, adding grader's notes won't make people's jaws fall off.

Made me laugh. I do  very much respect you. The boards would be a lesser place without you  

No, your point is spot on and illustrates I was being silly. Adding grading notes will not make people's jaws fall off. MIGHT make a few 9.6's sell for less..... Maybe. Hard to quantify. 

[Topnotchman]

One of the reasons for graders notes is to identify the book and the label have not been tapered or compromised.  One can read the notes and match up the flaws to the book to assure themselve the holder is original.  On a 9.8 notes are not necessary unless you are concerned the holder was compromised.  As a buyer and seller I would like to see 9.6’s and lower having at least one note to identify a reason it was down graded.  If it’s on my submission it clarifies and educates the reason of rejection or the assigned grade if it was not a pre screen order.  

By looking over my orders some times there are notes on books that failed a 9.8 pre screen, most of the time there are none.  Some orders have a mix of books with notes, or whole orders with notes, some orders are completely absent of notes.  With the randomness of orders with notes my conclusion is it’s up to the grader to add notes or not on that particular day.  Since this is a company that relies on consistency one would think there should be a standard operating procedure of assigning notes or not on books below 9.8.

I could see having at least one grader note on books below 9.8 as potentially lowering customer service calls. 

 

 

 

[The Lions Den]

10 minutes ago, Topnotchman said:

With the randomness of orders with notes my conclusion is it’s up to the grader to add notes or not on that particular day. 

You've got it. And it depends on the grader...and the circumstances at the time.  

[Catwomancomics]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 6:13 PM, Topnotchman said:

One of the reasons for graders notes is to identify the book and the label have not been tapered or compromised.  One can read the notes and match up the flaws to the book to assure themselve the holder is original.  On a 9.8 notes are not necessary unless you are concerned the holder was compromised.  As a buyer and seller I would like to see 9.6’s and lower having at least one note to identify a reason it was down graded.  If it’s on my submission it clarifies and educates the reason of rejection or the assigned grade if it was not a pre screen order.  

By looking over my orders some times there are notes on books that failed a 9.8 pre screen, most of the time there are none.  Some orders have a mix of books with notes, or whole orders with notes, some orders are completely absent of notes.  With the randomness of orders with notes my conclusion is it’s up to the grader to add notes or not on that particular day.  Since this is a company that relies on consistency one would think there should be a standard operating procedure of assigning notes or not on books below 9.8.

I could see having at least one grader note on books below 9.8 as potentially lowering customer service calls. 

 

 

 

I've submitted 25+ books for prescreen several times.  I would like to have grader notes on the rejects, so I can better understand what I'm missing when I select books for a prescreen.  This will help educate the submitter and help customers understand why books get rejected.  I sometimes submit multiple books of the same issue and they all look like 9.8 books IMHO and some get rejected.  I would like to know why those books got rejected.  Nobody wants a book rejected on a prescreen  and then pay $5.00 for the reject without knowing why.  I have never had a single grader note for rejects on any prescreen invoice. To see that there has been grader notes on prescreens for some invoices and not all is as frustrating as grader notes on some 9.6 graded books but not all 9.6 graded books.

[Bomber-Bob]

6 hours ago, BJCM said:

I sometimes submit multiple books of the same issue and they all look like 9.8 books IMHO and some get rejected.  I would like to know why those books got rejected.  

I think it can sometimes be a mistake to submit multiple books of the same issue. Remember, the pre screen grader is a human being so you are dealing with human traits. When you are looking at multiple copies of the same book, all in hand at once, it is only natural to feel some books are superior to the others. The tendency would be to pick out the better copies and send them along for grading while rejecting the others. You may be safe with two or three slam dunk 9.8's but the larger the multiple, the more likely a reject. It could be something as minor as alignment, less than firm staple, less than sharp corner, etc. Note, I'm not saying this is the correct procedure, I'm just saying it probably happens. It's analogous to picking out the best copy of a newly released book at your LCS, quickly scanning the pile to pick out the best one.

[Bomber-Bob]

6 hours ago, BJCM said:

Nobody wants a book rejected on a prescreen  and then pay $5.00 for the reject without knowing why.  I have never had a single grader note for rejects on any prescreen invoice. To see that there has been grader notes on prescreens for some invoices and not all is as frustrating as grader notes on some 9.6 graded books but not all 9.6 graded books.

I explained above somewhere how some prescreens may get notes. You have to understand the process. If a book does not pass prescreen, it does not get passed to the graders. If it does pass prescreen but gets rejected by the graders, there may be notes.