Is It Worth CGCing the Byrne FF Run?
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On 10/17/2018 at 9:25 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:
On 10/17/2018 at 9:07 AM, FlyingDonut said:

I would also do the Galactus books because you never know.

Speaking of which, have you subbed any of your Last Galactus Story in Epic, or is that on your radar?

It was #25-34, right? What a fantastic 9.8 run that would be.

 

On 10/17/2018 at 11:18 AM, FlyingDonut said:
On 10/17/2018 at 10:23 AM, rob_react said:

I'm guessing that would be brutal to put together. 

Much harder than I thought:

25: 1 9.8 blue
26: 1 9.8 blue/1 9.8 sig
27: no 9.8s, HGC 9.6
28: 1 9.8 sig
29: 1 9.8 blue
30: 1 9.8 blue
31: no 9.8s, HGC 9.6
32: 1 9.8 blue
33: no graded copies at all
34: 4 9.8 blue/4 9.8 sigs

None currently for sale on eBay, no closed sales. Wow, this would be tough to do.

From looking at the CGC population census report, it would appear there's a reason why this one would be tough to put together.

For most of those books listed here, the total population count is only 1 and with that one copy of course being both the highest graded copy and the lowest graded copy at the same time.  lol  This indicates to me that the sole reason why it's tough to put a CGC 9.8 run or even any graded run together is that nobody really thinks it's even worthwhile to slab those kinds of books in the first place.  :gossip:

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15 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

 

From looking at the CGC population census report, it would appear there's a reason why this one would be tough to put together.

For most of those books listed here, the total population count is only 1 and with that one copy of course being both the highest graded copy and the lowest graded copy at the same time.  lol  This indicates to me that the sole reason why it's tough to put a CGC 9.8 run or even any graded run together is that nobody really thinks it's even worthwhile to slab those kinds of books in the first place.  :gossip:

They're mags. That's likely the biggest reason. Mags are much harder to get in uber high grade, and far fewer people collect them, in general, and sub them. Plus, there's the additional cost.

This particular run of mags is chock full of greatness. Alan Moore's only Marvel work, The Last Galactus Story, beautiful covers...it's a brilliant run. I don't think it's because no one finds them worthwhile, as for the other reasons I listed.

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I saved all those Byrne books too!!

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_729.jpg.ba51d33bafb55507315cefd1b8c3adc8.jpg

Well, up to 273 at least, when the collecting stopped...

Edited by Karl Liebl

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Since I was quoted earlier, I'll add... When I say "brutal" I'm not talking about waiting for copies already graded to appear for sale. Obviously, if that's your plan it's going to impossible. I'm talking about sourcing and grading them- from the perspective of someone who has actually sourced and graded large CGC graded runs of copper and modern books. I feel like these particular books would be difficult above and beyond what the census says. It's a small run, it wouldn't take a decade, but it would take longer than a short run should. Your best hope would be to get lucky and get a nice, uniformly high grade run.

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3 hours ago, rob_react said:

Since I was quoted earlier, I'll add... When I say "brutal" I'm not talking about waiting for copies already graded to appear for sale. Obviously, if that's your plan it's going to impossible. I'm talking about sourcing and grading them- from the perspective of someone who has actually sourced and graded large CGC graded runs of copper and modern books. I feel like these particular books would be difficult above and beyond what the census says. It's a small run, it wouldn't take a decade, but it would take longer than a short run should. Your best hope would be to get lucky and get a nice, uniformly high grade run.

That not really what I meant, in that t this point the census is a pretty good barometer of what's out there. I'd be surprised if there are really high grade copies of Epic floating around at all. The paper quality - especially on the later ones - was significantly worse than most magazine covers and they have been trash books for a long time. It would be a very difficult slog to put it together. You're right in that the best way to do it would be to get lucky and find a long run from someone, OR find store backstock.

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15 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

That not really what I meant, in that t this point the census is a pretty good barometer of what's out there. I'd be surprised if there are really high grade copies of Epic floating around at all. The paper quality - especially on the later ones - was significantly worse than most magazine covers and they have been trash books for a long time. It would be a very difficult slog to put it together. You're right in that the best way to do it would be to get lucky and find a long run from someone, OR find store backstock.

I was commenting on the following idea that the census is the end-all indication of how tough these books are. 

13 hours ago, lou_fine said:

 

From looking at the CGC population census report, it would appear there's a reason why this one would be tough to put together.

For most of those books listed here, the total population count is only 1 and with that one copy of course being both the highest graded copy and the lowest graded copy at the same time.  lol  This indicates to me that the sole reason why it's tough to put a CGC 9.8 run or even any graded run together is that nobody really thinks it's even worthwhile to slab those kinds of books in the first place.  :gossip:

 

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8 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

That not really what I meant, in that t this point the census is a pretty good barometer of what's out there. I'd be surprised if there are really high grade copies of Epic floating around at all. The paper quality - especially on the later ones - was significantly worse than most magazine covers and they have been trash books for a long time. It would be a very difficult slog to put it together. You're right in that the best way to do it would be to get lucky and find a long run from someone, OR find store backstock.

I 1000% agree with you. In addition to your comment on the paper and these being trash books (getting trashed!)

  1. My feeling is that this had a much smaller print run than comparable comics of the time
  2. Even people that have these books (Mile high, Gary Dolgoff Comics, etc.) don't bring them to shows (because why would you?) so you'd have to rely on dumb luck finding them in person. Seeing these books in person saves a lot of churn, since you can accurately pre-screen without the hassle of ordering books and dealing with returns
  3. eBay is as eBay always is with books from this era. If you find a collector, selling their collection, or a dealer selling an OO collection you can do okay- otherwise... weep. 
  4. No one else is going to grade them

If I weren't done doing runs like this, I would totally do this run because it would be a challenge and it's an awesome run.   

Edited by rob_react
and it's an awesome run!

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23 minutes ago, rob_react said:
51 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

That not really what I meant, in that t this point the census is a pretty good barometer of what's out there. I'd be surprised if there are really high grade copies of Epic floating around at all. The paper quality - especially on the later ones - was significantly worse than most magazine covers and they have been trash books for a long time. It would be a very difficult slog to put it together. You're right in that the best way to do it would be to get lucky and find a long run from someone, OR find store backstock.

I 1000% agree with you. In addition to your comment on the paper and these being trash books (getting trashed!)

  1. My feeling is that this had a much smaller print run than comparable comics of the time
  2. Even people that have these books (Mile high, Gary Dolgoff Comics, etc.) don't bring them to shows (because why would you?) so you'd have to rely on dumb luck finding them in person. Seeing these books in person saves a lot of churn, since you can accurately pre-screen without the hassle of ordering books and dealing with returns
  3. eBay is as eBay always is with books from this era. If you find a collector, selling their collection, or a dealer selling an OO collection you can do okay- otherwise... weep. 
  4. No one else is going to grade them

If I weren't done doing runs like this, I would totally do this run because it would be a challenge.   

I think it's a fantastic run to put together. Like I said, the covers are absolutely gorgeous, they're big magazines, it's got the Last Galactus Story, plus it has all the factors of difficulty we've discussed.

I think they are out there, but certainly not in the "they're not worth grading, so no one's subbed them" sense, like, say, Thundercats #9. 

These are rare in very high grade the way mid 60s Marvels are. While everyone was carefully storing away their 50 copies of X-Men #192, no one was saving Epic Illustrateds in the same fashion. I doubt, even with pressing and a diligent search, you could ever find more than 20-50 copies of these magazines worldwide in 9.8 of each issue, ever. But I think you could find 2-3 of each in 5 or 6 years.

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12 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I think it's a fantastic run to put together. Like I said, the covers are absolutely gorgeous, they're big magazines, it's got the Last Galactus Story, plus it has all the factors of difficulty we've discussed.

I think they are out there, but certainly not in the "they're not worth grading, so no one's subbed them" sense, like, say, Thundercats #9. 

These are rare in very high grade the way mid 60s Marvels are. While everyone was carefully storing away their 50 copies of X-Men #192, no one was saving Epic Illustrateds in the same fashion. I doubt, even with pressing and a diligent search, you could ever find more than 20-50 copies of these magazines worldwide in 9.8 of each issue, ever. But I think you could find 2-3 of each in 5 or 6 years.

Maybe. A note however, that the paper stock on the cover is crappy, so that may have something to do with it.

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Here's what a run just went for:

FANTASTIC FOUR ANNUAL #18, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $150     
FANTASTIC FOUR ANNUAL #17, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $51     
FANTASTIC FOUR #292, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $55     
FANTASTIC FOUR #291, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #290, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $35     
FANTASTIC FOUR #289, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #288, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $59     
FANTASTIC FOUR #287, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #286, CGC 9.6 NM+ $37     
FANTASTIC FOUR #285, CGC 9.6 NM+ $24     
FANTASTIC FOUR #284, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $59     
FANTASTIC FOUR #283, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $37     
FANTASTIC FOUR #282, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $31     
FANTASTIC FOUR #281, CGC 9.6 NM+ $26     
FANTASTIC FOUR #280, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $34     
FANTASTIC FOUR #279, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #278, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $59     
FANTASTIC FOUR #277, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #276, CGC 9.6 NM+ $19     
FANTASTIC FOUR #275, CGC 9.6 NM+ $28     
FANTASTIC FOUR #274, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $45     
FANTASTIC FOUR #273, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $32     
FANTASTIC FOUR #272, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #271, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $37     
FANTASTIC FOUR #270, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $47     
FANTASTIC FOUR #269, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #268, CGC 9.6 NM+ $19     
FANTASTIC FOUR #267, CGC 9.6 NM+ $28     
FANTASTIC FOUR #266, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #264, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $59     
FANTASTIC FOUR #263, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $37     
FANTASTIC FOUR #262, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $54     
FANTASTIC FOUR #261, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $47     
FANTASTIC FOUR #260, CGC 9.6 NM+ $50     
FANTASTIC FOUR #259, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $43     
FANTASTIC FOUR #258, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $50     
FANTASTIC FOUR #257, CGC 9.6 NM+ $24     
FANTASTIC FOUR #256, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #255, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $41     
FANTASTIC FOUR #254, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $43     
FANTASTIC FOUR #253, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $43     
FANTASTIC FOUR #248, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $33     
FANTASTIC FOUR #246, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $42     
FANTASTIC FOUR #245, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $48     
FANTASTIC FOUR #244, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $154     
FANTASTIC FOUR #243, CGC 9.6 NM+ $60     
FANTASTIC FOUR #242, CGC 9.6 NM+ $40     
FANTASTIC FOUR #241, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $40     
FANTASTIC FOUR #239, CGC 9.6 NM+ $67     
FANTASTIC FOUR #238, CGC 9.6 NM+ $60
FANTASTIC FOUR #237, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $45
FANTASTIC FOUR #236, CGC 9.6 NM+ $28
FANTASTIC FOUR #234, CGC 9.6 NM+ $19
FANTASTIC FOUR #233, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $35
FANTASTIC FOUR #232, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $75

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Wow. Some real steals in there. No one's making money on < $30 slabs.

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I enjoy talking about this run. I've said it a million times already, but Byrne loved these characters like his children, and it shows. He really attempted to do something great with this title, and I think he succeeded. 

It was certainly head and shoulders better than what came after, until Walt took over.

 

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1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Wow. Some real steals in there. No one's making money on < $30 slabs.

I'm not chasing them anymore and the price crashes. Figures. I think the 9.6s are everywhere. Nice price on the Annual 18.

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On 10/17/2018 at 10:19 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Interesting collection of books in that picture. ;)

I did the digital colors on that SS GL book in that pic :-)

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I wish I was posting when his thread was active.   I collected the Byrne run and still have it.  I did the same thing about trying  to value the issues and came to the conclusion the current value wasn't enough.  One of my fav runs to collect and read.  Just loved how he treated Galactus.    Maybe Marvel puts out a FF movie in the next couple of years and does the FF & Big G some justice.

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It's still active!  :headbang:

 

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On 1/31/2019 at 5:28 PM, rob_react said:

Here's what a run just went for:

FANTASTIC FOUR ANNUAL #18, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $150     
FANTASTIC FOUR ANNUAL #17, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $51     
FANTASTIC FOUR #292, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $55     
FANTASTIC FOUR #291, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #290, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $35     
FANTASTIC FOUR #289, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #288, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $59     
FANTASTIC FOUR #287, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #286, CGC 9.6 NM+ $37     
FANTASTIC FOUR #285, CGC 9.6 NM+ $24     
FANTASTIC FOUR #284, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $59     
FANTASTIC FOUR #283, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $37     
FANTASTIC FOUR #282, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $31     
FANTASTIC FOUR #281, CGC 9.6 NM+ $26     
FANTASTIC FOUR #280, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $34     
FANTASTIC FOUR #279, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #278, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $59     
FANTASTIC FOUR #277, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #276, CGC 9.6 NM+ $19     
FANTASTIC FOUR #275, CGC 9.6 NM+ $28     
FANTASTIC FOUR #274, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $45     
FANTASTIC FOUR #273, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $32     
FANTASTIC FOUR #272, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #271, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $37     
FANTASTIC FOUR #270, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $47     
FANTASTIC FOUR #269, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #268, CGC 9.6 NM+ $19     
FANTASTIC FOUR #267, CGC 9.6 NM+ $28     
FANTASTIC FOUR #266, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #264, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $59     
FANTASTIC FOUR #263, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $37     
FANTASTIC FOUR #262, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $54     
FANTASTIC FOUR #261, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $47     
FANTASTIC FOUR #260, CGC 9.6 NM+ $50     
FANTASTIC FOUR #259, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $43     
FANTASTIC FOUR #258, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $50     
FANTASTIC FOUR #257, CGC 9.6 NM+ $24     
FANTASTIC FOUR #256, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $36     
FANTASTIC FOUR #255, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $41     
FANTASTIC FOUR #254, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $43     
FANTASTIC FOUR #253, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $43     
FANTASTIC FOUR #248, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $33     
FANTASTIC FOUR #246, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $42     
FANTASTIC FOUR #245, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $48     
FANTASTIC FOUR #244, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $154     
FANTASTIC FOUR #243, CGC 9.6 NM+ $60     
FANTASTIC FOUR #242, CGC 9.6 NM+ $40     
FANTASTIC FOUR #241, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $40     
FANTASTIC FOUR #239, CGC 9.6 NM+ $67     
FANTASTIC FOUR #238, CGC 9.6 NM+ $60
FANTASTIC FOUR #237, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $45
FANTASTIC FOUR #236, CGC 9.6 NM+ $28
FANTASTIC FOUR #234, CGC 9.6 NM+ $19
FANTASTIC FOUR #233, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $35
FANTASTIC FOUR #232, CGC 9.8 NM/MT $75

 

On 1/31/2019 at 5:48 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Wow. Some real steals in there. No one's making money on < $30 slabs.

Not exactly right as I am sure that the shipping companies and CCG are making money on these slabs, especially if the submittor also had them pressed first.  :devil:

As for the consignor, definitely left with a big hole in his pocket after paying for the slabbing fees and shipping charges.  I guess none of them turned out like an Iron Man 30 whereby he could find an astute :screwy: buyer to fork over $15K for a copy.  lol

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Gocollects ebay sales data has a FF 257 going for $325 for a 9.8 copy.  

Value dives off a cliff if it's less than that

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