For the love of PGX 3 3

[tabcom]

3 minutes ago, woowoo said:

I will buy it what's a fair price.

Well the most recent CGC 5.5 sold for 

[woowoo]

CGC grades are strict pgx grades are lose right. BUY THE BOOK NOT THE GRADE you hear this all the time guess what its TRUE

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, Skeptic_Kepp said:

This guy seems super uptight. No clue why.

If you're talking about me, I'm not "uptight", I just don't understand the premise of a discussion being led by, "There is no way I'm going to send it to CGC to get a 4.5 label."

I'm also inherently against doing work for others that can be done themselves. As a 13-year member of these forums, you should know what data is publicly available to you, and use it to form the same opinion that everyone who doesn't work for PGX has.

[Skeptic_Kepp]

Maybe there is value to having this conversation due to PGX's continued growth despite their negative reputation? New people join the board all the time.

[tabcom]

If I owned the PGX copy, I'd be satisfied with the sale price.

[Skeptic_Kepp]

And I agree with your stance on PGX vs CGC.

[ExNihilo]

1 minute ago, Skeptic_Kepp said:

Maybe there is value to having this conversation due to PGX's continued growth despite their negative reputation? New people join the board all the time.

Unfortunately, the internet is rife with people who ask questions looking for an easy answer instead of doing the work themselves.  If they wanted to, they could take the data (as they've done) and present it in the format of a PSA.  At the end of the day it's "give a man fish vs teach a man to fish" type of thing.  Most of the time I'm inclined to give the quick easy answer.  But sometimes you just see one too many and have to help a person by teaching them to help themself.

[awakeintheashes]

1 minute ago, Skeptic_Kepp said:

And I agree with your stance on PGX vs CGC.

Pro tip: It helps if you quote who you are responding to. WTTB

[tabcom]

4 minutes ago, woowoo said:

CGC grades are strict pgx grades are lose right. BUY THE BOOK NOT THE GRADE you hear this all the time guess what its TRUE

Yes, indeed.

To expand on the OP, the general comic book collector doesn't always look at it that way.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, tabcom said:

Yes, indeed.

To expand on the OP, the general comic book collector doesn't always look at it that way.

I don't think so. Graded books are still a niche. The general comic collector buys primarily raws/readers. When you buy those, you're looking for the book and not the grade.

[ExNihilo]

3 minutes ago, tabcom said:

Yes, indeed.

To expand on the OP, the general comic book collector doesn't always look at it that way.

I guarantee you, the majority of people buying books at my LCS are not getting books slabbed.  I would venture a guess that most of them are unfamiliar with the process and the various companies involved.

[JollyComics]

Buy book not label is a true statement. Buying PGX books is at your risk. It's always 50/50 if it has a restoration or not.

Edited October 16, 2018 by JollyComics

[tabcom]

TwoPiece . . . in your opinion, what percentage of comic book collectors (investors) are actively spending time on CGC Forums? 

I like hanging out in the GA forum. Over the years, I'd guess about 150 members regularly post\lurk there on any given day.

It is my opinion, the general comic collector isn't as informed about the business of graded comics.

 

[tabcom]

Pretty close in price.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, tabcom said:

TwoPiece . . . in your opinion, what percentage of comic book collectors (investors) are actively spending time on CGC Forums? 

I like hanging out in the GA forum. Over the years, I'd guess about 150 members regularly post\lurk there on any given day.

It is my opinion, the general comic collector isn't as informed about the business of graded comics.

 

Your first mistake is assuming that all comic collectors are investors. They're not one in the same.

A very small percentage of comic collectors is a member of these CGC forums.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Do you work for PGX or something, @tabcom? What's the purpose of this thread..?

[tabcom]

Missing mv stamp 

[Skeptic_Kepp]

18 minutes ago, awakeintheashes said:

Pro tip: It helps if you quote who you are responding to. WTTB

It was Twopiece.

[tabcom]

1 minute ago, TwoPiece said:

Do you work for PGX or something, @tabcom? What's the purpose of this thread..?

I'm an uptight computer engineer by trade.

The purpose is to confirm my opinion that there is no value in cracking and submitting my FF#1 PGX 5.5 to CGC. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The problem with this thread and its premise is that it indirectly implies that PGX is a legitimate competitor to CGC.

It is not.

PGX has a documented history of fraud and collusion, going back well over a decade, and which has not changed with the passage of time.

It's not about the ability to grade. It's never been about the ability to grade, as grading is subjective.

It's about the fact that PGX has routinely and consistently engaged in illegal and fraudulent behavior, and I defy Daniel Patterson to take me to court over my allegation. These are very serious allegations, and I am well aware of the very serious potential consequences of my public statements if I have misrepresented or mischaracterized PGX and/or its owner, Daniel Patterson. 

http://www.justafanboy.com/PGX/

That's just the start.

For those interested, what I believe is the relevant statute is found here:

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.085

2017 ORS 164.085¹ 

Theft by deception:

(1)A person, who obtains property of another thereby, commits theft by deception when, with intent to defraud, the person:

(a)Creates or confirms another’s false impression of law, value, intention or other state of mind that the actor does not believe to be true;

(b)Fails to correct a false impression that the person previously created or confirmed;

(c)Prevents another from acquiring information pertinent to the disposition of the property involved;

It is my opinion that the activities described in the site linked above, as well as numerous other examples, clearly demonstrates theft by deception on PGX' part. By characterizing restored books as unrestored, AND digitally attempting to "cover up" such deception (it's always the cover up that does you in), they have knowingly created a false impression of value in the minds of the customers of PGX slabs. PGX should not be judged on their ability to grade, but should be rejected because it and he have proven themselves unworthy of even basic trust.

It is also my opinion that buying PGX books is the same as buying raw books, with the same right to inspection as anything else purchased over the internet and that, despite the opinions of some, a "slabbed comic" does NOT represent a whole unit or product, but rather represents an item with value, ie, the comic itself, to which is attached an appraisal of condition, and the buyer is not violating any sort of contractual agreement of any kind by removing the attached appraisal (that is, the slab), and having it appraised by another company who also engages in such appraisals for a fee.

In other words: if you sell me a PGX book, and I crack it and have it submitted to CGC, and they find a defect that is materially different (not merely a subjective difference of opinion as to its condition), then I retain all right of return of that item, even though it has been removed from its PGX case, because that case is not a product that has any value in and of itself...it's just the container to discourage the use of that specific opinion for that specific item on another item of lesser condition.

And...I believe if it ever reached a court of law, that court would find precisely the same thing: a slab does not create a "new product" which must be returned intact for the buyer to be made whole, but is merely an appraisal, and the buyer has a right to seek an independent appraisal of his or her own, without forfeiting his rights in the process.

In any event...long story short, PGX's grading ability is utterly insignificant relative to their fraudulent and unethical behavior since their founding. Each PGX slab should be treated exactly as a raw book, and examined as diligently as anyone would a raw example.

Edited October 16, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus