For the love of PGX 3 3

[Skeptic_Kepp]

20 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

Unfortunately, the internet is rife with people who ask questions looking for an easy answer instead of doing the work themselves.  If they wanted to, they could take the data (as they've done) and present it in the format of a PSA.  At the end of the day it's "give a man fish vs teach a man to fish" type of thing.  Most of the time I'm inclined to give the quick easy answer.  But sometimes you just see one too many and have to help a person by teaching them to help themself.

I see your point. That makes sense. Sometimes, the obvious is missed.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, tabcom said:

I'm an uptight computer engineer by trade.

The purpose is to confirm my opinion that there is no value in cracking and submitting my FF#1 PGX 5.5 to CGC. 

Your opinion has not, and will not, be confirmed. Does the comic have defects that are press-able? If so, a CCS press + CGC encapsulation is infinitely better than a PGX 5.5.

[RockMyAmadeus]

18 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

I don't think so. Graded books are still a niche. The general comic collector buys primarily raws/readers. When you buy those, you're looking for the book and not the grade.

 

16 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

I guarantee you, the majority of people buying books at my LCS are not getting books slabbed.  I would venture a guess that most of them are unfamiliar with the process and the various companies involved.

Also something that needs to be remembered. Although graded books are often the flashiest, most valuable ones, grading represents PERHAPS 1-5% of the entire market for comic books.

And even that estimate that could be a much larger number than actually exists.

[tabcom]

3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

...long story short, PGX's grading ability is utterly insignificant relative to their fraudulent and unethical behavior since their founding. Each PGX slab should be treated exactly as a raw book, and examined as diligently as anyone would a raw example.

With respects to the OP, IMHO, no one outside of the CGC Forum much cares (as the sales data I'm posting suggests).

Hence, PGX is still in the marketplace.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

Also something that needs to be remembered. Although graded books are often the flashiest, most valuable ones, grading represents PERHAPS 1-5% of the entire market for comic books.

And even that estimate that could be a much larger number than actually exists.

I think that's a generous number, considering that CGC just recently crossed the threshold of 5 million graded collectibles, and that 5 million includes more than just comic books.

X-Men Vol. 2 #1, X-Force #1, Spider-Man Vol. 2 #1, and Spawn all alone are more than 5 million books. That's just four books in 100+ years of comic book production.

I'd say that graded books make up < 1% of the market, easily.

[theCapraAegagrus]

3 minutes ago, tabcom said:

With respects to the OP, IMHO, no one outside of the CGC Forum much cares (as the sales data I'm posting suggests).

Hence, PGX is still in the marketplace.

 

That just isn't true.

I know more than a few fellow collectors, who are not members of this forum, that avoid PGX-graded comics like the plague. I'm getting close to that level of avoidance. I haven't bought a PGX comic, wasn't particularly avoiding them, but at this point I don't think I ever will buy one. They're sub-par.

Also, you are the OP, whether you mean Original Poster or Original Post...

Edited October 16, 2018 by TwoPiece

[tabcom]

5 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Your opinion has not, and will not, be confirmed. Does the comic have defects that are press-able? If so, a CCS press + CGC encapsulation is infinitely better than a PGX 5.5.

Do I think the value of my FF#1 will be enhanced by CCS+CGC, I'm not so sure.

[theCapraAegagrus]

3 minutes ago, tabcom said:

Do I think the value of my FF#1 will be enhanced by CCS+CGC, I'm not so sure.

Then you're being purposefully ignorant or delusional. If your book has press-able defects, CCS+CGC will 100% increase the value of your book. Even without a press, that book will sell for more. I will personally buy it myself for $1,000 more than any PGX has ever sold for at its grade.

Edit: The only legitimate reason there is to be afraid of resubmitting to CGC is that you're afraid of undisclosed restoration, which is another reason that CGC is tenfold better than PGX.

Edited October 16, 2018 by TwoPiece
Comment added.

[ExNihilo]

6 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

Also something that needs to be remembered. Although graded books are often the flashiest, most valuable ones, grading represents PERHAPS 1-5% of the entire market for comic books.

And even that estimate that could be a much larger number than actually exists.

Where does the 1-5% come from?  For example, if I look at the census, I see that roughly 500 copies of Batman #24 (the proposal issue) are on record.  But I have to imagine the print run must have been somewhere above 100k resulting in roughly only 0.5% being graded.  And that's considering that Batman #24 is a minor key of sorts.  Batman #25 for example only has 33 books on census.

[tabcom]

1 minute ago, TwoPiece said:

That just isn't true.

I know more than a few fellow collectors, who are not members of this forum, that avoid PGX-graded comics like the plague. I'm getting close to that level of avoidance. I haven't bought a PGX comic, wasn't particularly avoiding them, but at this point I don't think I ever will buy one. They're sub-par.

I've only owned 1 PGX comic. So far no symptoms of contracting the plague. I agree, they're sub=par.

I had a great opportunity to own a FF#1 a couple years back. Turned out to be a good investment. I don't plan on selling anytime soon. But when I do, it will probably be offered in its PGX case.

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 minutes ago, tabcom said:

With respects to the OP, IMHO, no one outside of the CGC Forum much cares (as the sales data I'm posting suggests).

Hence, PGX is still in the marketplace.

 

It's not that "no one outside the CGC Forum much cares" (which is debatable), it's that few outside the CGC forum know.

But it's not even that. A book doesn't become valueless inside a PGX case. It's not about the case, and never has been. It's about the book inside.

When a "graded" book like X-Men #1 sells for HALF what a CGC graded book in the same "grade" sells for...then the market very much does understand who and what PGX really is. 

PGX is still in the marketplace because comic books themselves are still in the marketplace. If I'm offered an X-Men #1 that happens to be in a PGX case, I'm not going to reject it just because of the case. I'll examine it, offer what I think is fair for the grade I think it is, and that's that. I will then crack the ever living snot out of that case, examine it for myself completely, and potentially see what CGC has to say. After all...I don't lose my sight when examining a PGX slab...I just treat it as if it's a raw book, and act accordingly.

So, I imagine, does anyone else.

Again: it's not about people not caring, so much as not being aware.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, tabcom said:

I had a great opportunity to own a FF#1 a couple years back. Turned out to be a good investment. I don't plan on selling anytime soon. But when I do, it will probably be offered in its PGX case.

That's cool. Owning an FF #1 is a great status. What is the point of this thread, then..?

[RockMyAmadeus]

10 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

I think that's a generous number, considering that CGC just recently crossed the threshold of 5 million graded collectibles, and that 5 million includes more than just comic books.

X-Men Vol. 2 #1, X-Force #1, Spider-Man Vol. 2 #1, and Spawn all alone are more than 5 million books. That's just four books in 100+ years of comic book production.

I'd say that graded books make up < 1% of the market, easily.

That's an argument I use all the time. The total print run, according to Jim Lee, of X-Men #1 was ~8.2 million copies, of all flavors.

That's just a single book. There are BILLIONS of comic books in existence.

[tabcom]

1 minute ago, TwoPiece said:

That's cool. Owning an FF #1 is a great status. What is the point of this thread, then..?

Trying to get a read on how much a discount PGX graded comics are compared to CGC.

[ExNihilo]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

It's not that "no one outside the CGC Forum much cares" (which is debatable), it's that few outside the CGC forum know.

Anecdotal support for RMA's assertion (for whatever it's worth), but I myself had no clue slabbing existed as a thing until early 2017 and I have been collecting for nearly 30 years.  Bless my uneducated soul, but all I knew was to handle with care and put in a bag/board/comic box.  I had no idea that getting books professionally preserved and graded existed.  I imagine I'm not alone.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, tabcom said:

Trying to get a read on how much a discount PGX graded comics are compared to CGC.

Too many factors, including the specific book, and designated grade. This information is readily available to you. This thread is pointless. 

[tabcom]

As entertaining as this discussion is, must get back to work.

[Artboy99]

Just now, tabcom said:

Trying to get a read on how much a discount PGX graded comics are compared to CGC.

Reason why you should crack your PGX slab and submit to CGC

1. CGC will do a restoration check that PGX does NOT do.

Is your book complete or does it have missing pages: > see the Xmen 1 PGX cracked slab thread for more on that topic

Is your FF restored?

Color touch, trimmed, married pages...the list is long that PGX does not check for at all.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Let this thread die.

[ExNihilo]

3 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

Reason why you should crack your PGX slab and submit to CGC

1. CGC will do a restoration check that PGX does NOT do.

Is your book complete or does it have missing pages: > see the Xmen 1 PGX cracked slab thread for more on that topic

Is your FF restored?

Color touch, trimmed, married pages...the list is long that PGX does not check for at all.

 

1 minute ago, TwoPiece said:

Let this thread die.

I think for OP, it's a Schroedinger's Cat scenario.  Presently, he is unaware as to the accuracy of PGX's grading and restoration check.  He could re-sub to CGC and the book could come back with a blue label or a purple label.  The book in the PGX slab is akin to the cat in the box...no one knows which of the two scenarios will play out.  The book in essence occupies both...it is both the cat being dead AND alive at the same time.

The fear is that it could come back purple which would devalue the book when compared to a "blue" PGX label.  So does OP keep the book as is, blissfully unaware and believing the book is whole and unrestored?  Or do they sub to CGC and run the risk of this bubble they've created being shattered and finding out the book is faulty/defective?