Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[▫️]

Watching today after I rewatch Winter Soldier. The best Marvel movie.

[Mephisto]

The bank did the right thing by denying that loan. How long did that food, which almost certainly contained sea food, sit in the back of that truck?

I can’t imagine how many people in town get sick from that because they decided to run errands like go to the bank while the food just sits in an exposed flat bed truck.

 

[nmtg9]

Solid start. Great opening sequence, even my wife was thrilled by it. 

Which comics will this series cause to artificially increase in value for no good reason? Apart from SS3 of course.. 

[Bosco685]

6 hours ago, fmaz said:

It's funny... different strokes, I guess. I like the small character moments. They remind me of the stuff I grew up enjoying reading comics, and what Marvel used to separate themselves from DC... Peter Parker doing his laundry, Ben Grimm being harassed by the Yancy Street kids... moments that build a deeper picture.  For me anyway.

 

I have read so much of DC and Marvel over the years, when I would watch our beloved Stan Lee in interviews spewing that same marketing message I would cringe. As it was clearly that: marketing fluff.

Bruce Wayne dealing with grief and anguish over decisions he made as Batman. Including the death of Jason Todd because he could help him control his personal anger.

Clark Kent struggling with personal relationship while wrestling with be the world defender as the god-like Superman.

Hal Jordan so grief-stricken over the loss of his hometown Coast City he goes mad and recreates it with his Green Lantern powers to cope with the loss.

I think our comic book pull list was different. 

[Bosco685]

 

[@therealsilvermane]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

10 hours ago, fmaz said:

It's funny... different strokes, I guess. I like the small character moments. They remind me of the stuff I grew up enjoying reading comics, and what Marvel used to separate themselves from DC... Peter Parker doing his laundry, Ben Grimm being harassed by the Yancy Street kids... moments that build a deeper picture.  For me anyway.

 

I have read so much of DC and Marvel over the years, when I would watch our beloved Stan Lee in interviews spewing that same marketing message I would cringe. As it was clearly that: marketing fluff.

Bruce Wayne dealing with grief and anguish over decisions he made as Batman. Including the death of Jason Todd because he could help him control his personal anger.

Clark Kent struggling with personal relationship while wrestling with be the world defender as the god-like Superman.

Hal Jordan so grief-stricken over the loss of his hometown Coast City he goes mad and recreates it with his Green Lantern powers to cope with the loss.

I think our comic book pull list was different. 

Okay, except the DC stories you're referencing Bosco are more "modern" stories from the 80's and up. Before that, and I assume fmaz is an older reader, Marvel Comics stood out in the 60's for bringing real world issues into the lives of their heroes. Peter Parker trying to pay for Aunt May's medical bills. Reed and Sue Richards having a baby. Bruce Banner being picked on by the dad of his girlfriend Betty Ross. This was the revolution that Stan Lee brought to comics. Real world problems. And I do think it was Stan Lee more than Kirby and Ditko for bringing that real world angle. If you look at Ditko and Kirby stories after they left Marvel, they're more hero adventures and less normal human drama. Whereas Stan Lee's stories, regardless of the artist whether it was Romita, Buscema, or Steranko, always had that real world human element. That's why Stan Lee always cites the soap opera of Spiderman and the poetic 60's Silver Surfer series as his best writing. DC only partly flirted with this in the 70's, particularly with the Green Lantern/Green Arrow and Batman stories by Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams. Besides that, DC didn't really start growing up until the late 80's when they revamped their heroes like Frank Miller's Batman, John Byrne's Superman, George Perez's WOnder WOman, Mike Grell's Green Arrow. While Marvel never went as dark and gritty as Watchmen or Killing Joke, they'd been infusing their comic book stories with real world problems from the very beginning in the 60's. It's in the DNA of these Marvel characters and it's part of their origins. Yes, Batman was born from the murder of his parents, but by the time he got Robin and into those fun whimsical stories of the 50's and 60's, he'd lost the darkness of those first few stories of the 1940's and it wasn't explored again until those Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams stories of the early 70's.

[Bosco685]

Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

Okay, except the DC stories you're referencing Bosco are more "modern" stories from the 80's and up. Before that, and I assume fmaz is an older reader, Marvel Comics stood out in the 60's for bringing real world issues into the lives of their heroes. Peter Parker trying to pay for Aunt May's medical bills. Reed and Sue Richards having a baby. Bruce Banner being picked on by the dad of his girlfriend Betty Ross. This was the revolution that Stan Lee brought to comics. Real world problems. And I do think it was Stan Lee more than Kirby and Ditko for bringing that real world angle. If you look at Ditko and Kirby stories after they left Marvel, they're more hero adventures and less normal human drama. Whereas Stan Lee's stories, regardless of the artist whether it was Romita, Buscema, or Steranko, always had that real world human element. That's why Stan Lee always cites the soap opera of Spiderman and the poetic 60's Silver Surfer series as his best writing. DC only partly flirted with this in the 70's, particularly with the Green Lantern/Green Arrow and Batman stories by Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams. Besides that, DC didn't really start growing up until the late 80's when they revamped their heroes like Frank Miller's Batman, John Byrne's Superman, George Perez's WOnder WOman, Mike Grell's Green Arrow. While Marvel never went as dark and gritty as Watchmen or Killing Joke, they'd been infusing their comic book stories with real world problems from the very beginning in the 60's. It's in the DNA of these Marvel characters and it's part of their origins. Yes, Batman was born from the murder of his parents, but by the time he got Robin and into those fun whimsical stories of the 50's and 60's, he'd lost the darkness of those first few stories of the 1940's and it wasn't explored again until those Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams stories of the early 70's.

Well realsilvermane (since we are going by first names  ) it is the Marvel sensitive-types that bring this up frequently how Marvel is better because it focuses on the individual character at a personal level versus DC is all about the characters being gods.

How about Bruce Wayne dealing with Talia as a lover (1971) where as Batman he has to wrestle with the fact she is the daughter of the leader of a worldwide assassins guild? These stories go on and on at a personal level for both DC and Marvel.

Barry Allen starts out as a police scientist (forensic investigator) that was constantly wrestling with how to balance being a superhero protecting people along with developing his personal relationship with Iris. Including this 1958 page from Showcase #13.

Just admit your main reading focus is Marvel Comics. So that is what you know, and not as familiar with the DC (or other companies) content and history. Making it yet again another competition of DC vs Marvel makes you look like a very small individual. And with each detraction post made in the quest of 'Make Mine Marvel' you prove that out.

[Bosco685]

A better frame of mind!

[@therealsilvermane]

56 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Well realsilvermane (since we are going by first names  ) it is the Marvel sensitive-types that bring this up frequently how Marvel is better because it focuses on the individual character at a personal level versus DC is all about the characters being gods.

How about Bruce Wayne dealing with Talia as a lover (1971) where as Batman he has to wrestle with the fact she is the daughter of the leader of a worldwide assassins guild? These stories go on and on at a personal level for both DC and Marvel.

Barry Allen starts out as a police scientist (forensic investigator) that was constantly wrestling with how to balance being a superhero protecting people along with developing his personal relationship with Iris. Including this 1958 page from Showcase #13.

Just admit your main reading focus is Marvel Comics. So that is what you know, and not as familiar with the DC (or other companies) content and history. Making it yet again another competition of DC vs Marvel makes you look like a very small individual. And with each detraction post made in the quest of 'Make Mine Marvel' you prove that out.

I am familiar with both DC and Marvel. Not sure you realize how much comic books consumed my childhood. I was so obsessed with them, in an AP English class in grade school I even made my final report for 1/5 of my final grade on Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, which my teacher threatened I'd get no higher than a C+ if I did, which I did anyway, and for which I got a C+ even though the teacher said she liked it. But anyway...

I'll give you that DC had romance in their old stories, particularly with Barry Allen and Iris West, or sure Bruce Wayne and Talia, which was a Denny O'Neil Neal Adams story btw. Marvel Comics did it too, obviously. But did Diana Prince or Katar Hol have to worry about paying their monthly rent or a relative's medical bills, or having a baby, or being bullied for not being good enough or man enough or normal enough? No they didn't. Being an underdog was a huge part of those Silver Age Marvel Comics stories and it's what made them so relatable to a lot of readers. DC heroes were mostly either billionaires, gods, or aliens and just didn't have the real world relatability of Peter Parker, the Fantastic Four, or even the alien Silver Surfer who was feared and treated as an outcast while imprisoned on Earth. Being an outcast is relatable. You just didn't see this over in DC.

I'd go so far as to say that the success of the Superfriends cartoon, the Wonder Woman TV show, and Batman in syndication in the 70's made DC dig in their heels even more to make the comics a little more like those safe easily digestible TV characters. But I'd also say Marvel's commitment to a continuous grounded real world universe limited them, whereas over in DC, which wasn't so tied to a real world continuous universe, could experiment with their characters and thus gave us stuff that approached art and literature like Miller's Dark Knight or Alan Moore's Watchmen and Swamp Thing or Mike Grell's Green Arrow. Marvel tried to experiment with Marvel Graphic Novels and stuff, but it just didn't land, as readers were used to Marvel stories being more grounded. We just want to know if Peter Parker is going to graduate college.

All I'm saying is that when it comes to real world stuff like Sam Wilson trying to get a bank loan or Bucky struggling on a date, this is classic Marvel Comics and it's core to what made Marvel Comics stand out in those original Stan Lee stories of the 60's, kinda what fmaz said above.

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I am familiar with both DC and Marvel. Not sure you realize how much comic books consumed my childhood. I was so obsessed with them, in an AP English class in grade school I even made my final report for 1/5 of my final grade on Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, which my teacher threatened I'd get no higher than a C+ if I did, which I did anyway, and for which I got a C+ even though the teacher said she liked it. But anyway...

I'll give you that DC had romance in their old stories, particularly with Barry Allen and Iris West, or sure Bruce Wayne and Talia, which was a Denny O'Neil Neal Adams story btw. Marvel Comics did it too, obviously. But did Diana Prince or Katar Hol have to worry about paying their monthly rent or a relative's medical bills, or having a baby, or being bullied for not being good enough or man enough or normal enough? No they didn't. But being an underdog was a huge part of those Silver Age Marvel Comics stories and it's what made them so relatable to a lot of readers. DC heroes were mostly either billionaires, gods, or aliens and just didn't have the real world relatability of Peter Parker, the Fantastic Four, or even the alien Silver Surfer who was feared and treated as an outcast while imprisoned on Earth. Being an outcast is relatable. You just didn't see this over in DC.

I'd go so far as to say that the success of the Superfriends cartoon, the Wonder Woman TV show, and Batman in syndication made DC dig in their heels even more to make the comics a little more like those safe easily digestible TV characters. But I'd also say Marvel's commitment to a continuous grounded real world universe limited them, whereas over in DC, which wasn't so tied to a real world continuous universe, could experiment with their characters and thus gave us stuff that approached art and literature like Miller's Dark Knight or Alan Moore's Watchmen and Swamp Thing or Mike Grell's Green Arrow. Marvel tried to experiment with Marvel Graphic Novels and stuff, but it just didn't land, as readers were used to Marvel stories being more grounded. We just want to know if Peter Parker is going to graduate college.

All I'm saying is that when it comes to real world stuff like Sam Wilson trying to get a bank loan or Bucky struggling on a date, this is classic Marvel Comics and it's core to what made Marvel Comics stand out in those original Stan Lee stories of the 60's, kinda what fmaz said above.

If you were such a comic book fan of all this content, you would honor more of the concepts and heroism displayed versus continuously making this about DC vs Marvel (which only leads to a toxic environment).

Reflect on that. 

[fantastic_four]

I've been enjoying a four-decades-long and EXTREMELY fruitful DC vs Marvel feud, thank you very much.  

Feuding is fine, as was every clip everyone has shared from Anthony Mackie where he was kidding entirely.  How anyone took malice away from anything he's said in front of a camera makes me worry for a future of comedy that apparently requires many to carry a parasol and/or smelling salts to engage with.  

Edited March 20, 2021 by fantastic_four

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

I've been enjoying a four-decades-long and EXTREMELY fruitful DC vs Marvel feud, thank you very much.  

Feuding is fine, as was every clip everyone has shared from Anthony Mackie where he was kidding entirely.  How anyone took malice away from anything he's said in front of a camera makes me worry for a future of comedy that apparently requires many to carry a parasol and/or smelling salts to engage with.  

That's your opinion.

When the friendly competition becomes something more than that, you have become a drama magnet: purposely detracting from one source of entertainment in order to build upon another. There is nothing mentally healthy with that mindset. And if you think that's normal behavior, I would step back and revisit your values.

Anthony Mackie the first time and not letting it go was one thing. To continue it on into an Infinity War interview comes across like he can't let it go. And it encourages the MCU fans to follow suit. Kind of like from the beginning when Robert Downy Jr. kicked off his journey with the famous interview with Huffington Post.

[Bosco685]

Now there's kidding trash talk. Mackie has done that as well. They are just having fun while playing for the cameras. That's all good and funny at times.

 

[Bosco685]

So with U.S. Agent being played by Wyatt Russell...

I'm expecting he can make this quite interesting. He played quite the nasty fellow in Goon 2: The Last Enforcer.

 

[adampasz]

Thumbs up from me. Marvel consistently gets top notch performances out of its leads, elevating what might otherwise just be OK.
Anthony Mackie is fantastic. There's really a lot of interesting layers and subtlety that Mackie brings to his performance. I like that he doesn't just say "I won't pick up the shield because X". You can tell he has a lot of internal conflicts about what he's doing. Also the relationship with his sister felt very real. I liked the portrayal of his delusion that he can fix everything for his family.

Some of the Bucky stuff felt a bit too trope-y. Especially the It Was All A Dream action scene, and the therapist scene... I'm not sure what was up with the cinematography in that scene --  weird backlighting and those ultra-closeups. Were they trying to imitate Sam Ismail's style on Homecoming? Or did they shoot it post-Covid with the actors on zoom?  Otherwise, the show was was beautifully shot.

The Turned Down For A Loan scene was also trope-y, now that I think about it, but I guess it didn't bug me as much without the ultra-close-ups. And the acting and dialogue in that scene were solid.

The Bucky scenes with the old man and Sushi Bar Woman were good, though. Felt more natural.
Great music. Loved seeing Batroc the Leaper again. Some of the "locations" felt a bit fabricated, like an episode of Alias.  But if they manage to tell a fun, globe-trotting story, I'm ok with that.

Edited March 20, 2021 by adampasz

[adampasz]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:25 AM, fantastic_four said:

He didn't cross him off the list, though, so it seems like he'll go back there before the series is over.  The whole idea of the list is really compelling.

Yeah, I think it's good twist that it's a Make Amends list instead of a Hit List.

[fmaz]

10 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

I have read so much of DC and Marvel over the years, when I would watch our beloved Stan Lee in interviews spewing that same marketing message I would cringe. As it was clearly that: marketing fluff.

Bruce Wayne dealing with grief and anguish over decisions he made as Batman. Including the death of Jason Todd because he could help him control his personal anger.

Clark Kent struggling with personal relationship while wrestling with be the world defender as the god-like Superman.

Hal Jordan so grief-stricken over the loss of his hometown Coast City he goes mad and recreates it with his Green Lantern powers to cope with the loss.

I think our comic book pull list was different. 

I loved those books too.. but the stuff you’re talking about... those issues were top level “character defining issues” ... big event issues... not the small human things.  Just because Marvel books were different than DC books doesn’t mean one was good and the other wasn’t.  I don’t think it was hype. Big epic hero stories. Less about the struggles and screw-ups of  the people trying to be heroes.

I think seeing Falcon get rejected for a loan is very reminiscent of the “every man” problems that Marvel characters of the Silver/Bronze age had... and despite the very interesting character arcs you mentioned, I know of of none of my friends who recreated their hometown with a power ring.  (I kid, I kid).  But you get my point.  I’m just saying they’re different... and when Hector said he was bored by it, I simply said that, to me, that’s the good stuff.

 

[fmaz]

5 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Okay, except the DC stories you're referencing Bosco are more "modern" stories from the 80's and up. Before that, and I assume fmaz is an older reader, Marvel Comics stood out in the 60's for bringing real world issues into the lives of their heroes. Peter Parker trying to pay for Aunt May's medical bills. Reed and Sue Richards having a baby. Bruce Banner being picked on by the dad of his girlfriend Betty Ross. This was the revolution that Stan Lee brought to comics. Real world problems. And I do think it was Stan Lee more than Kirby and Ditko for bringing that real world angle. If you look at Ditko and Kirby stories after they left Marvel, they're more hero adventures and less normal human drama. Whereas Stan Lee's stories, regardless of the artist whether it was Romita, Buscema, or Steranko, always had that real world human element. That's why Stan Lee always cites the soap opera of Spiderman and the poetic 60's Silver Surfer series as his best writing. DC only partly flirted with this in the 70's, particularly with the Green Lantern/Green Arrow and Batman stories by Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams. Besides that, DC didn't really start growing up until the late 80's when they revamped their heroes like Frank Miller's Batman, John Byrne's Superman, George Perez's WOnder WOman, Mike Grell's Green Arrow. While Marvel never went as dark and gritty as Watchmen or Killing Joke, they'd been infusing their comic book stories with real world problems from the very beginning in the 60's. It's in the DNA of these Marvel characters and it's part of their origins. Yes, Batman was born from the murder of his parents, but by the time he got Robin and into those fun whimsical stories of the 50's and 60's, he'd lost the darkness of those first few stories of the 1940's and it wasn't explored again until those Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams stories of the early 70's.

I resent the characterization of an “older reader”.  The correct term is “ancient”  

Just hit the “speed limit” a few weeks ago, so that’s what it feels like anyway!

 

[Bosco685]

38 minutes ago, fmaz said:

I loved those books too.. but the stuff you’re talking about... those issues were top level “character defining issues” ... big event issues... not the small human things.  Just because Marvel books were different than DC books doesn’t mean one was good and the other wasn’t.  I don’t think it was hype. Big epic hero stories. Less about the struggles and screw-ups of  the people trying to be heroes.

I think seeing Falcon get rejected for a loan is very reminiscent of the “every man” problems that Marvel characters of the Silver/Bronze age had... and despite the very interesting character arcs you mentioned, I know of of none of my friends who recreated their hometown with a power ring.  (I kid, I kid).  But you get my point.  I’m just saying they’re different... and when Hector said he was bored by it, I simply said that, to me, that’s the good stuff.

 

I think we all come to love what we love. But with that we assume what we do love is also what we know to be true. At times that is not reality.

Even with my Amazing Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Tales of Suspense and Tales To Astonish comics for every few books that were fantastic to read there would be a run of filler stories. And let's not kid ourselves. The Marvel Silver Age books (like DC too) sat for two decades on a slow burn to finally explode in the market price-wise until the 1980s-1990s. I was able to pick up a solid NM-/NM copy of Marvel Super-Heroes #18 for $8 because it was so gorgeous I couldn't pass it up. So you are chatting with a fellow fan of not only Marvel but also DC and many other companies. I've read the great, the good, and mediocre. Many of those must-haves now were nice-to-haves back then and only age made each of them top collecting focuses.

Marvel and DC both had filler stories and still do. Even in the 70s and 80s go back and read Spectacular Spider-Man or Web of Spider-Man and watch over a series of books how the stories at times are just there. But then you will have a 'Blind Leading the Blind' or Kraven's Last Hunt that reminded us why we hung in for the ride. Or one of my favorites which are not always solid stories concerning Cloak and Dagger.

But the assumption Marvel was about real people and DC is about gods is fortunately based on a lack of reading research. They all had their individual character focuses that make these so personal and beloved.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]