Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[Gatsby77]

4 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

No, lots of people have innocent loved ones killed by criminals or bad guys. Happens everyday all over the world, actually. Does that mean there should be lots of Punishers? I really always just saw Frank Castle as Death Wish in spandex. I never cared for him. That's just me.

I sort of agree with you here - there's been no shortage of revenge-fueled killer action films over the last 50 years, including Death Wish, etc.

Case in point: A lot of what killed the box office (and prospects for a franchise) of The Punisher film (2004) with Thomas Jane is that just a week later the Man on Fire remake was released (with Denzel Washington). Same basic character, arc, and revenge-fueled mayhem, but Man on Fire was in an entirely different league.

Denzel and director Tony Scott basically made a better Punisher movie than the actual Marvel-sanctioned film with Thomas Jane and John Travolta. It was embarrassing.

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Gatsby77

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

I sort of agree with you here - there's been no shortage of revenge-fueled killer action films over the last 50 years, including Death Wish, etc.

Case in point: A lot of what killed the box office (and prospects for a franchise) of The Punisher film (2004) with Thomas Jane is that just a week later the Man on Fire remake was released (with Denzel Washington). Same basic character, arc, and revenge-fueled mayhem, but Man on Fire was in an entirely different league.

Denzel and director Tony Scott basically made a better Punisher movie than the actual Marvel-sanctioned film with Thomas Jane and John Travolta. It was embarrassing.

 

Kill Bill Vol I and 2

Mad Max: Fury Road (Furiosa was all about revenge)

John Wick 1, 2, 3, pending 4

The Revenant

Jack Reacher

The Equilizer (movies and new TV show)

The Hunt

Nobody

I don't know. Seems like revenge/getting even is big cinema business. 

 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

6 hours ago, Angel of Death said:

Episode 1 was good.

Falcon's action scene was over-the-top, some of the camera angles are bad, and the therapist character is dumb (which is somewhat on-point). The writing was great for this episode, though. Already off to a much better start than WandaVision.

What was your issue with the therapist?

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

the actual Marvel-sanctioned film with Thomas Jane and John Travolta. It was embarrassing.

 

FTFY

[theCapraAegagrus]

10 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

What was your issue with the therapist?

She said a couple of stupid things, which isn't necessarily out of character for therapists, having experienced that sort of stupidity coming from them.

[fantastic_four]

I've never been clear on how Sam has the wings.  They're made by the military, but he's retired from the military--so why does he have them at all?  Who fixes them when they get damaged, and who upgraded them for this series?  They look completely different than the ones we've seen before.  Who gives him the fuel to run them or the ammunition reloads after he fires his rockets?

Edited March 22, 2021 by fantastic_four

[@therealsilvermane]

15 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

What was your issue with the therapist?

 

4 hours ago, Angel of Death said:

She said a couple of stupid things, which isn't necessarily out of character for therapists, having experienced that sort of stupidity coming from them.

The ultimate purpose of the therapist for the scene in Episode One is to give Bucky more of a motivation to end his self-isolation which she thinks is a dead-end if that's his idea of "peace." Pushing Bucky to seek out others probably motivates him to agree to go on the date with Leah and probably to start returning Sam's calls next episode, particularly after the cliffhanger news segment at the end of Ep One.

[theCapraAegagrus]

9 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

The ultimate purpose of the therapist for the scene in Episode One is to give Bucky more of a motivation to end his self-isolation which she thinks is a dead-end if that's his idea of "peace." Pushing Bucky to seek out others probably motivates him to agree to go on the date with Leah and probably to start returning Sam's calls next episode, particularly after the cliffhanger news segment at the end of Ep One.

It's very poorly done.

Listen, we all understand that you have a blind love for the MCU. You must accept the fact that not everything is perfect. There are plenty of flaws in every MCU property.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

1 hour ago, Angel of Death said:

It's very poorly done.

Listen, we all understand that you have a blind love for the MCU. You must accept the fact that not everything is perfect. There are plenty of flaws in every MCU property.

Not sure why you think it was poorly done. I didn't see any problems with it.

[theCapraAegagrus]

7 minutes ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Not sure why you think it was poorly done. I didn't see any problems with it.

It comes off as though it was written or directed by someone who hasn't needed - or gone through - therapy.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

9 hours ago, Angel of Death said:

It comes off as though it was written or directed by someone who hasn't needed - or gone through - therapy.

Since I've never been in therapy, I can't say. But keep in mind as well that this seems to be a situation where the relationship isn't your typical therapist/patient relationship. These sessions are a condition of his pardon.

[drotto]

I liked the show, but felt that is was a bit slow overall.  The opening action sequence was good, but some odd CGI pulled me out of the experience at times. I really liked the Winter Soldier fight sequence.  Overall, I found the Winter Soldier part of the story to be more compelling at this point. Bucky dealing with the idea of atoning for his crimes while Winter Soldier for me is just more interesting then the rather mundane and somewhat predictable domestic problems Falcon is dealing with.  I also found it very difficult to except that the Avengers, given the fact that they saved they world, would not have received some sort of compensation.  At minimum, one of the wealthy Avengers (Pepper on Tony's behalf, Blank Panther, etc.) would have stepped up and helped him. Hell his GoFundMe campaign would go nuts at worse.

 

Part of me also wishes that they would have just adapted the Brubaker Death of Captain American story line.  It was a stellar run, and seems like it would have been a fairly easy and compelling adaptation.  I feel like some of the ideas from that story are present here, but that run is a modern classic.

Edited March 23, 2021 by drotto

[HighVoltage]

21 minutes ago, drotto said:

I liked the show, but felt that is was a bit slow overall.  The opening action sequence was good, but some odd CGI pulled me out of the experience at times. I really liked the Winter Soldier fight sequence.  Overall, I found the Winter Soldier part of the story to be more compelling at this point. Bucky dealing with the idea of atoning for his crimes while Winter Soldier for me is just more interesting then the rather mundane and somewhat predictable domestic problems Falcon is dealing with.  I also found it very difficult to except that the Avengers, given the fact that they saved they world, would not have received some sort of compensation.  At minimum, one of the wealthy Avengers (Pepper on Tony's behalf, Blank Panther, etc.) would have stepped up and helped him. Hell his GoFundMe campaign would go nuts at worse.

 

Part of me also wishes that they would have just adapted the Brubaker Death of Captain American story line.  It was a stellar run, and seems like it would have been a fairly easy and compelling adaptation.  I feel like some of the ideas from that story are present here, but that run is a modern classic.

 Brubaker was fantastic on that run. As was Steve Epting.

[theCapraAegagrus]

8 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Since I've never been in therapy, I can't say. But keep in mind as well that this seems to be a situation where the relationship isn't your typical therapist/patient relationship. These sessions are a condition of his pardon.

Yes, but it's a therapist's job to improve the situation, and her antagonizing obviously doesn't help him.

Now, maybe I can buy "she's a therapist and a government employee", so she's doubly-incompetent. I just think it's very poor writing in that scene.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm not sure why we're focusing on one of the small gripes of the first episode, TBH. Pretty much everything outside of the therapist scene was really good.

[Gatsby77]

6 hours ago, drotto said:

 I also found it very difficult to except that the Avengers, given the fact that they saved they world, would not have received some sort of compensation.  At minimum, one of the wealthy Avengers (Pepper on Tony's behalf, Blank Panther, etc.) would have stepped up and helped him. Hell his GoFundMe campaign would go nuts at worse.

Yeah - I don't get it. Even if they work as mission-based independent contractors, job-to-job, it strikes me that Sam would have decent money.

But more than that, in the Avengers comics I read growing up, they were always salaried. This was the primary reason Spidey would try to join every 50 issues or so - government salary and health benefits.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

7 hours ago, drotto said:

 I also found it very difficult to except that the Avengers, given the fact that they saved they world, would not have received some sort of compensation.  At minimum, one of the wealthy Avengers (Pepper on Tony's behalf, Blank Panther, etc.) would have stepped up and helped him. Hell his GoFundMe campaign would go nuts at worse.

Yeah - I don't get it. Even if they work as mission-based independent contractors, job-to-job, it strikes me that Sam would have decent money.

But more than that, in the Avengers comics I read growing up, they were always salaried. This was the primary reason Spidey would try to join every 50 issues or so - government salary and health benefits.

I think Sam, in particular, was working in the shadows for a couple years with Steve Rogers after Civil War. Sam gave up being a government sanctioned Avenger when he joined Team Cap, so there would have been no government salary for him between Civil War and Endgame. He may have been doing contract jobs at the beginning of Falcon and Winter Soldier, but it had only been a couple months since everyone came back and not enough time to file taxes or establish a regular income, which is what's needed to get a substantial loan these days.

Vision, on the other hand, was a government sanctioned Avenger because he sided with Iron Man in Civil War. As Vision's name was on the name of the lot he bought for Wanda, I assume Vision was identified as a sentient being, so he most likely pulled some kind of salary from being an Avenger and apparently was able to buy land.

[Bosco685]

5 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I think Sam, in particular, was working in the shadows for a couple years with Steve Rogers after Civil War. Sam gave up being a government sanctioned Avenger when he joined Team Cap, so there would have been no government salary for him between Civil War and Endgame. He may have been doing contract jobs at the beginning of Falcon and Winter Soldier, but it had only been a couple months since everyone came back and not enough time to file taxes or establish a regular income, which is what's needed to get a substantial loan these days.

Vision, on the other hand, was a government sanctioned Avenger because he sided with Iron Man in Civil War. As Vision's name was on the name of the lot he bought for Wanda, I assume Vision was identified as a sentient being, so he most likely pulled some kind of salary from being an Avenger and apparently was able to buy land.

I would agree with this logic if not for Falcon joining in with the Avengers first in Infinity War to hide Vision and then afterwards when brought back from The Snap he participated in the defeat of Thanos to protect the universe.

I would think any government would be rapidly forgiving with that much sacrifice and dedication.

[theCapraAegagrus]

7 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I would agree with this logic if not for Falcon joining in with the Avengers first in Infinity War to hide Vision and then afterwards when brought back from The Snap he participated in the defeat of Thanos to protect the universe.

I would think any government would be rapidly forgiving with that much sacrifice and dedication.

When they went to the Avengers compound, though, Secretary Ross commanded that they be arrested. I think that it has since been 'forgiven', but not until after "The Blip".

[Bosco685]

When Does ‘The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’ Take Place in the Marvel Timeline?

Quote

When does The Falcon and the Winter Soldier take place?

Thankfully the episode actually gives us an answer to this very important question! During a scene where (no spoilers) Sam Wilson (Anthony Mackie) is speaking at a public event, he says that it’s been a few months since The Blip happened. The Blip, as you’ll recall, is the oddly cutesy name given to the five whole years that passed wherein half of the entire universe’s population was snapped out of existence. Sounds like more than just a Blip to me, but go off!

 

Does Falcon and the Winter Soldier take place after WandaVision?
Yes. Even though The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was originally scheduled to come out first and delayed due to COVID, it takes place after WandaVision. As revealed in WandaVision Episode 4, the series takes place roughly three weeks after the Blip; that’s how much time passed between Monica Rambeau’s return to reality and her return to work at S.W.O.R.D. So WandaVision takes place a few weeks after Avengers: Endgame, whereas Falcon and Winter Soldier takes place a few months after.

So the show is taking place 2-3 months after everyone was brought back after the Blip and 5 years, 2-3 months after Sam was snapped out of existence attempting to defeat Thanos's forces invading Wakanda.

Government is slow to take action. But not that slow over 5 years it couldn't reverse course and recognize a hero's sacrifice to protect the world.