Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[Bosco685]

11 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

So

  Reveal hidden contents

Sharon's interaction with Batroc confirms she's the Power Broker, yes? Or is there still a chance it's Madame Hydra?

 

A pretty sharp summary of where the Power Broker theory started and why it isn't her.

Falcon and Winter Soldier: Sharon Carter probably isn't the Power Broker - here's why

Quote

Why Sharon Carter can't be the MCU's Power Broker

In episode 5, we see Carter talking to someone on the phone at her luxury residence in Madripoor. She tells the other individual that she has a job for them, and reminds said person that they owe her after she got them out of prison in Algeria.

 

Who is the only person, that we know of, who was recently incarcerated near to Algeria? Yep, Georges Batroc (Georges St-Pierre). He was the leader of terrorist organization LAF, who Sam (Anthony Mackie) stopped in the opening sequence of episode 1. Sam rescues a US army officer who had been taken captive by Batroc and his crew in Tunisia. Take a quick look at a map of Africa, and which country is right next to Tunisia? Algeria, hence why Batroc was imprisoned there after he was shot down during his encounter with Sam as Falcon.

 

Back to episode 5. Batroc starts getting angry with Carter and, after he finishes ranting down the phone, she promises Batroc that he'll be paid double for his last job if he agrees to this latest assignment.

 

When is the next time we see Batroc? Near the end of episode 5 when he joins forces with the Flag Smashers. The group, led by Karli Morgenthau (Erin Kellyman), are preparing to take the fight right to the Global Repatriation Council (GRC) and complete their mission of creating a world with no national borders.

 

This is where the 'Carter is Power Broker' theory truly falls apart. Again, though, we have to look to a previous episode to work out why.

 

Falcon and the Winter Soldier episode 2 holds the key

In Episode 2, Karli receives a text message from an unidentified individual while the Flag Smashers are laying low in temporary accommodation. The message reads "You took what was mine. I'm going to find you and kill you", which relates to the Super Soldier serum that they've stolen from Power Broker.

 

Later, when the Flag Smashers are loading a plane full of medicines and supplies, one of the group receives another message. They tell the others that Power Broker's men have found them, which leads to a scramble to get airborne and the eventual death of one of the Flag Smashers' crew.

 

Adding these two elements together, it's easy to deduce that it was Power Broker who was threatening Karli earlier on. If it was, and it stands to reason that this is the case, Carter's actions in Falcon and the Winter Soldier episode 5 clearly show that she isn't Power Broker.

 

How so? Well, for one, she's sent Batroc to team up with the Flag Smashers to co-ordinate some sort of attack on the GRC. If Carter was Power Broker, it wouldn't make sense that she'd threaten to kill them, only to end up supporting their cause three episodes later. Surely she would be sending Batroc and other mercenaries to try and kill the Flag Smashers as retribution for stealing the serum from her?

 

That's not the only action that Carter takes that shows she probably isn't the Power Broker. In episode 3, it's Carter who leads Sam, Bucky (Sebastien Stan) and Zemo (Daniel Brühl) to the lab of Doctor Wilfred Nagel (Olli Haaskivi), who created the new Super Soldier serum. Zemo ends up killing Nagel to prevent him from making any more serum, which the former is determined to see through in order to end the possibility of other super soldiers being made in the future.

Now that assumes Carter sent Batroc to assist the Flag Smashers with best intent. What if he is actually there to spy or disrupt their mission unknowingly? Which then blows this entire theory out of the water.

[Gatsby77]

19 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

A pretty sharp summary of where the Power Broker theory started and why it isn't her.

Falcon and Winter Soldier: Sharon Carter probably isn't the Power Broker - here's why

Now that assumes Carter sent Batroc to assist the Flag Smashers with best intent. What if he is actually there to spy or disrupt their mission unknowingly? Which then blows this entire theory out of the water.

Exactly. I think the author of this article is being far too literal / naive. From the context of the two Batroc scenes in Episode 5, it was clear to me that Sharon re-hired him to infiltrate the Flag Smashers as a double agent.

However, we also never heard him accept her offer. So yes - there's a *possibility* that he rejected her money and - in an ideological huff - decided to defect to the Flag Smashers to try to screw Sharon for her (perceived) earlier betrayal.

TBD, but the latter theory requires several assumptions, whereas the former requires only one and follows logically - that her "job" for him was to infiltrate (and ultimately double-cross) Karli & crew.

I'm going with the former, and the strong (albeit rebuttal) presumption that she's the Power Broker.

[Gatsby77]

32 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

A pretty sharp summary of where the Power Broker theory started and why it isn't her.

Falcon and Winter Soldier: Sharon Carter probably isn't the Power Broker - here's why

Now that assumes Carter sent Batroc to assist the Flag Smashers with best intent. What if he is actually there to spy or disrupt their mission unknowingly? Which then blows this entire theory out of the water.

Two other things point to Sharon:

1) The lack of other suspects. If it's not her, who? Only other strong contender so far was this week's guest - but 1) I suspect she won't appear again next week, but be held in reserve for later stories; and 2) if she were the Power Broker, why not follow the comics and have her give Walker the super soldier serum, by simply having her appear an episode or two earlier? 

2) I hate this is a thing, but

Spoiler

Sharon doesn't use an iPhone - so the Rian Johnson Knives Out reveal about Apple not allowing villains to use their products applies.

 

[Bosco685]

11 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Two other things point to Sharon:

1) The lack of other suspects. If it's not her, who? Only other strong contender so far was this week's guest - but 1) I suspect she won't appear again next week, but be held in reserve for later stories; and 2) if she were the Power Broker, why not follow the comics and have her give Walker the super soldier serum, by simply having her appear an episode or two earlier? 

2) I hate this is a thing, but

  Hide contents

Sharon doesn't use an iPhone - so the Rian Johnson Knives Out reveal about Apple not allowing villains to use their products applies.

 

The fun with a show like this is it can go either way.

1) Sharon was shown to reveal she is the Power Broker

2) Sharon was shown to throw us off the trail there is still a mystery to be solved

I'm more okay with this show's approach than what happened with WandaVision. Yet I liked WandaVision more as a story. Odd

Edited April 17, 2021 by Bosco685

[Gatsby77]

Sure. But even without this week's scenes, the most compelling evidence Sharon's the Power Broker is the lack of other logical suspects among folks we've seen so far.

Introducing a new character in the role next episode is a possibility, but given I'm not sure the Power Broker's even been mentioned in two episodes, and we've already got the coming showdown involving Sam, Bucky, Walker, and the Flag Smashers, an 11th hour reveal of a new character seems unnecessary and lacks the narrative punch of an official Sharon reveal.

It'd also be an interesting twist since in the comics version of Civil War (Captain America 25), she's the one who killed Steve Rogers.

[apollobuzz]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Sure. But even without this week's scenes, the most compelling evidence Sharon's the Power Broker is the lack of other logical suspects among folks we've seen so far.

Introducing a new character in the role next episode is a possibility, but given I'm not sure the Power Broker's even been mentioned in two episodes, and we've already got the coming showdown involving Sam, Bucky, Walker, and the Flag Smashers, an 11th hour reveal of a new character seems unnecessary and lacks the narrative punch of an official Sharon reveal.

It'd also be an interesting twist since in the comics version of Civil War (Captain America 25), she's the one who killed Steve Rogers.

Dang, just started reading this a couple weeks ago and was only up to issue #22.  Guess I'm done now.  

(not really)

[fmaz]

Interesting stuff about Sharon NOT being the Power Broker.   The only reason I think she’ isn’t is because A) they haven’t said she is and B) they’re making it so OBVIOUS that she is.  Those two things combined normally are a guaranteed misdirection. 

My only other thought is that she might be the “power broker”... but in name only.  Meaning that the whole role is a cover. I suppose that’s another way to redeem the character if the want to go that way.

By the way, 

Spoiler

JLD as the Contessa 

Made me so happy I couldn’t stop smiling. I’m glad I avoided spoilers (not sure how badly it was leaked). I wouldn’t have guessed that was the character they were introducing if you’d given me 25 guesses.. and yet, now that they have it makes PERFECT sense for so many reasons and it’s BRILLIANT casting.  There are endless ways they can go with it and ... like I said, I can’t stop smiling. 

It was a bit odd to plunk that down mid-episode rather than an post-credit scene, but then they still needed to move Walker’s arc along, so I think it made sense there.  

 

[Bosco685]

6 hours ago, fmaz said:

Interesting stuff about Sharon NOT being the Power Broker.   The only reason I think she’ isn’t is because A) they haven’t said she is and B) they’re making it so OBVIOUS that she is.  Those two things combined normally are a guaranteed misdirection. 

My only other thought is that she might be the “power broker”... but in name only.  Meaning that the whole role is a cover. I suppose that’s another way to redeem the character if the want to go that way.

Spoiler

 

By the way, 

  Hide contents

JLD as the Contessa 

Made me so happy I couldn’t stop smiling. I’m glad I avoided spoilers (not sure how badly it was leaked). I wouldn’t have guessed that was the character they were introducing if you’d given me 25 guesses.. and yet, now that they have it makes PERFECT sense for so many reasons and it’s BRILLIANT casting.  There are endless ways they can go with it and ... like I said, I can’t stop smiling. 

It was a bit odd to plunk that down mid-episode rather than an post-credit scene, but then they still needed to move Walker’s arc along, so I think it made sense there.  

 

 

That's exactly where I'm leaning. The show is making it so obvious she is the Power Broker, it can't be her. Or there will be a twist to the role.

Still, this was not a strong episode. It spent too much time trying to further endear viewers to Sam becoming a replacement Cap with all his training. To include his learning to use the shield effectively when earlier in the episode he and Bucky were tossing it around and catching it with ease.

[media_junkie]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

To include his learning to use the shield effectively when earlier in the episode he and Bucky were tossing it around and catching it with ease.

Yeah, I'm wondering if there was some editing mistakes there.  He and Bucky were playing a nice game of catch with the shield between themselves and a tree and Sam was having no issue at all.  5 minutes later it was like he couldn't pick up the think without dropping it.

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, media_junkie said:

Yeah, I'm wondering if there was some editing mistakes there.  He and Bucky were playing a nice game of catch with the shield between themselves and a tree and Sam was having no issue at all.  5 minutes later it was like he couldn't pick up the think without dropping it.

Again I think the pandemic caused some form of production disruption. Between yanking Madame Hydra from Black Widow due to release schedule changes and this, it felt like the showrunner had to alter Episode 5 late in the process and we ended up with what we saw.

Quote

“It’s a big actor who hasn’t been named in the series,” Sciretta said, “This is someone we didn’t know is going to be in the series and is an award-winning actor/actress.”

Right there is one of the tells. The showrunner had no idea Julia Louis-Dreyfus was even going to appear on the show. So then he had to fit her in now.

[Bosco685]

Marvel Has Big Plans for That Surprise Falcon and the Winter Soldier Cameo

Quote

In one of the better-kept secrets in Marvel’s history, 11-time Emmy Award–winning actor Julia Louis-Dreyfus made her surprise MCU debut as Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine in the penultimate episode of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier—emerging as a potential Big Bad of Marvel’s second TV series.

 

According to sources close to the production, Louis-Dreyfus was slated to first appear in the Black Widow film which, in a pre-COVID world, was scheduled to debut in theaters May 1, 2020. But Marvel, reportedly, has even bigger ambitions for Louis-Dreyfus’s villainous figure. 

 

Both Marvel producer Nate Moore and head writer Malcolm Spellman hyped up episode five as the one they believed would get fans talking—and they weren’t wrong. Though she has kept her new pivotal role in the Marvel universe a secret long after she was meant to debut in Black Widow, Louis-Dreyfus couldn’t help but tease her new gig in an interview she gave to Vanity Fair back in 2019. To be more precise, Veep costar Tony Hale and showrunner David Mandel were really the ones who couldn’t keep a lid on their excitement. 

 

When asked what Louis-Dreyfus should do next, Hale said: “Selina was so atrocious, but then you loved her at the same time. And I think that makes a really good Disney villain.” It was Mandel, specifically, who suggested she might play a Marvel villain. Louis-Dreyfus had no choice but to play along saying: “Swinging around on wires and kicking people in the face…shooting fire out of whatever you shoot fire out of. I would dig that.” 

 

Dreyfus’s Contessa may not exactly be the swinging around on wires type, but she has a lot of potential in the MCU. From Falcon and the Winter Soldier context clues, it's not a stretch to assume that Louis-Dreyfus might also be taking on the comic book role of the Power Broker. In the comics, Contessa Valentina Allegra de la Fontaine has gone by many names, but one that carries the most potential in this context is Madame Hydra. Then again, a number of women have had that title. 

 

Her comic book origin, which has her transforming from one of the Italian jet-setting elite to a secret agent, could explain Louis-Dreyfus’s appearance in Black Widow. (That is, if Marvel still plans to include her in that film after all of this release-date shuffling.) On the page, Madame Hydra is eventually revealed as a Russian sleeper agent. That could mean that in the MCU, she has trained at the same Soviet program that produced Scarlett Johansson’s Natasha Romanoff and Florence Pugh’s Yelena Belova. 

 

[jharvey]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Still, this was not a strong episode. It spent too much time trying to further endear viewers to Sam becoming a replacement Cap with all his training. To include his learning to use the shield effectively when earlier in the episode he and Bucky were tossing it around and catching it with ease.

There is also no way in the world that a non-super powered human could possibly throw and catch a metal shield like that. It just looked ridiculous.

Edited April 17, 2021 by jharvey

[fmaz]

4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

That's exactly where I'm leaning. The show is making it so obvious she is the Power Broker, it can't be her. Or there will be a twist to the role.

Still, this was not a strong episode. It spent too much time trying to further endear viewers to Sam becoming a replacement Cap with all his training. To include his learning to use the shield effectively when earlier in the episode he and Bucky were tossing it around and catching it with ease.

Your opinion on the strength of the episode is obviously your own so no one can (or should at least ... I forget this is the internet LOL) dispute that). 

But as for the shield tossing?  Let me at least present the way I saw it, and maybe my background in athletics brings a different perspective.

What I saw them doing in the beginning was “having a catch”.  Everyone here, regardless of athletic ability has probably at one time or another had a catch with a baseball or softball with a parent or friends. Casually thrown a ball around. It’s not that difficult to do.

But what Sam was then doing on his own was the equivalent of full-blown practicing/training for game-speed competition.  Which is wholly different. Bucky had experience with the shield, plus he’s enhanced .... I think they were having a catch to sort of introduce Sam to things to get him comfortable ... and then when he decided to commit he went into the full on preparation.

If you failed to see that, perhaps it was a failure on the part of the --script/director in conveying it. But I do feel relatively certain that was the intent. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by fmaz

[fastballspecial]

The tough part is the catch the shield in the slings inside it. The physics part of that is difficult. The weight of the shield
is not much, but the physics of catching it correctly I would think would be hard.

 

[Bosco685]

1 hour ago, fmaz said:

Your opinion on the strength of the episode is obviously your own so no one can (or should at least ... I forget this is the internet LOL) dispute that). 

But as for the shield tossing?  Let me at least present the way I saw it, and maybe my background in athletics brings a different perspective.

What I saw them doing in the beginning was “having a catch”.  Everyone here, regardless of athletic ability has probably at one time or another had a catch with a baseball or softball with a parent or friends. Casually thrown a ball around. It’s not that difficult to do.

But what Sam was then doing on his own was the equivalent of full-blown practicing/training for game-speed competition.  Which is wholly different. Bucky had experience with the shield, plus he’s enhanced .... I think they were having a catch to sort of introduce Sam to things to get him comfortable ... and then when he decided to commit he went into the full on preparation.

If you failed to see that, perhaps it was a failure on the part of the ----script/director in conveying it. But I do feel relatively certain that was the intent. 

I appreciate your internet opinion too. 

Yes, Bucky and Sam were having a catch. Yet the shield bounced around the trees and towards them yet they never missed once. Later when Sam is doing his 'Flying Graysons' routine bouncing around the backyard, it's like he can never get 'the ball'. And one scene was interesting as he misses the shield and if you look behind him it is heading right for the corner of the house. Yet afterwards there is no damage to the house.

Now as a soldier where we would practice battle drills repeatedly (much more relevant maybe than an athlete, though in the same ballpark of repeatable skills intent) you are trying to get to the point the actions become ingrained in you. Especially in the heat of battle, certain skills just need to happen without a lot of thought as that extra few minutes of delay can lead to casualties. But initially you may be slightly clumsy as you develop what they call muscle memory.

But let's go back to that earlier scene with Sam and Bucky. They are snatching that shield out of the air each time it bounces around. Like they already have that muscle memory established. That's what battle drills lead to - and these folks seemed to be establishing.

See where I am coming from? I'm not clueless how these things come about. Defense and offense battle skills training were forced into our heads. So I would expect the same here with characters trying to prepare for the same skillsets in advance of taking on lethal antagonists.

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Bosco685

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

3 hours ago, fmaz said:

Your opinion on the strength of the episode is obviously your own so no one can (or should at least ... I forget this is the internet LOL) dispute that). 

But as for the shield tossing?  Let me at least present the way I saw it, and maybe my background in athletics brings a different perspective.

What I saw them doing in the beginning was “having a catch”.  Everyone here, regardless of athletic ability has probably at one time or another had a catch with a baseball or softball with a parent or friends. Casually thrown a ball around. It’s not that difficult to do.

But what Sam was then doing on his own was the equivalent of full-blown practicing/training for game-speed competition.  Which is wholly different. Bucky had experience with the shield, plus he’s enhanced .... I think they were having a catch to sort of introduce Sam to things to get him comfortable ... and then when he decided to commit he went into the full on preparation.

If you failed to see that, perhaps it was a failure on the part of the ---script/director in conveying it. But I do feel relatively certain that was the intent. 

This is exactly what I was thinking. And I'm a little surprised that people have such an issue with this, and no issue with the idea that the shield ricochets perfectly in a straight line from one object to the next, when an object obeying the laws of physics wouldn't do that.

[adampasz]

I am pretty mixed on this show, and I think this was the weakest episode.

The cast, production design, and cinematography are great. And I admire their desire to tackle topical issues, but I feel the execution is lacking. I don't mind a "catch-your-breath" episode, but I had a hard time not being bored. It seems like they plot, and dialogue could have used another round of rewrites and tightening up to make this work.

• The JLD cameo just took me out of the story. She's great, but she will always be Elaine for me. Maybe it would have worked better as the after-credits scene...
• The boat fixing scene was dull. I didn't feel the stakes for Sam's family. It seemed too easy to call up all their friends and throw a fund-raiser to solve the problem.
• Is Sam really so bad at using tools that Bucky had to help him twice?
• The shield training montage was silly. The physics of the shield are not really working for me, as noted by people above. He's Captain America, not Captain Boomerang. I am willing to forgive comic book physics/action, but they did the same gimmick so many times in this episode, it really called attention to itself. Part of the problem with training montages they don't generate conflict or narrative that draw you into the story. They're just filler. Usually they work best when they're funny, or tell a mini-story of some kind. But this one was just a work-out video.
• I don't get why Sam would give up the wings. He is a total badass with the wings already, and they can protect him. I guess he just wants to become the symbol, and to honor the legacy or something..? There are interesting ideas here, but the presentation is not clear enough.
• Point being, Sam's motivations are still not completely clear to me. In this show, he's portrayed frequently as confused and ambivalent -- which maybe is realistic -- but is not a clear character motivation that drives the narrative forward. I think Anthony Mackie is a good actor, and very charismatic, but the writers aren't giving him enough to work with, so he spends a lot of the time brooding.
• The 2nd Isiah Bradley scene was long and talky, like the first one. I would have preferred to see it in flashback. HBO Watchmen Episode 6 did a better job with a similar concept.  I don't mind long dialogue scenes, but I just don't think the level of dialogue writing on the show is enough to keep it interesting. Also, it's not clearly tied into the rest of the story.
• The other B- and C-plots also seem disconnected and meandering. Agent 13/Powerbroker(?) had one action episode, but now she's just sitting around making phone calls. Carly & The Flagsmashers also just spent the episode hanging around looking angsty. Same goes for Dora & The Wakandans. They didn't really have much of an objective in the show, except to be a foil for Bucky. Again, all these stories seem to suffer from a lack of stakes and dramatic tension.
• Also, the Flagsmashers haven't seemed scary or threatening since the first episode. They just seem like a bunch of hipsters hanging around.
• The John Walker arc isn't landing for me. Sam and Bucky spent the first 3 episodes killing people indiscriminately, and faced no consequences. Yet suddenly the show makes a big hoopla about Walker killing one of the bad guys in an act of revenge for his friend's death. Is it only bad because he was caught on camera by dozens of bystanders?
• I'll admit I was tired when I watched, but I didn't really get the details Walker's punishment. They stripped him of being Captain America, but he gets to keep his military rank and loses his pension? I feel like the show is trying to make some points, but it's very muddled.
• Also the scene with Battlestar's parents didn't connect for me because I never felt I got to know the character. Was that his wife or sister? The show didn't bother to explain. (Or it's possible I dozed off and missed it.)
• The big action scene with Sam, Bucky and JW was lame. It's 2 on 1, so, didn't seem like much of a challenge for the good guys. And it didn't feel cinematic. They're just running around in a big room, hitting each other.
• I don't really get who's authorizing Sam and Bucky to do stuff, or who they report to? The US Military? The GRC? Or are they acting independently. A lot of the background and world-building feels too sketchy.
• Too bad Zemo left. He was the best part of the show. Hopefully he will be back for a Thunderbolts show or movie.

Sorry for the rant. Not trying to go to war with anyone who likes the show. I just wish I could like it more. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by adampasz

[media_junkie]

2 hours ago, adampasz said:

Too bad Zemo left. He was the best part of the show.

Zemo was awesome.  

[Bosco685]

4 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

This is exactly what I was thinking. And I'm a little surprised that people have such an issue with this, and no issue with the idea that the shield ricochets perfectly in a straight line from one object to the next, when an object obeying the laws of physics wouldn't do that.

Unfortunately, it was poorly executed. No offense to anyone that was overjoyed with the entire episode. Nor to those that anything the MCU distributes they feel it is amazing and awesome (there are some with that mindset).

Like I noted earlier. The military executes battle drills to drive reactions into their muscle memory. I get what they were going for. But Sam already demonstrated strong skills with the shield early on. So later to convey he was all clumsy and confused and frustrated, it seemed ill-timed.

Not that folks shouldn't rejoice with every episode. If that is what you were expecting, thoroughly enjoy every second of this then. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

Quote

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier director Kari Skogland teases the reveal of Sam Wilson (Anthony Mackie) as the all-new Captain America when the Marvel Studios original series concludes on April 23. In Episode 5, "Truth," Sam and Bucky Barnes (Sebastian Stan) reclaim the blood-stained shield of Captain America from an unhinged John Walker (Wyatt Russell), who used the star-spangled symbol to publicly execute a member of the Flag Smashers (Noah Mills). When Walker is stripped of his authority and title as Captain America by the United States government, Sam meets with the country's other disowned Super Soldier — Isaiah Bradley (Carl Lumbly) — before deciding to step into a role vacated six months earlier by an aged and retired Steve Rogers (Chris Evans).

 

On Skogland's Instagram story, the director shared a brief clip from the final moments of Episode 5 with the added touch of a twirling Captain America shield. The episode ends with Sam opening a case gifted to him by the Wakandans, who have specially tailored the winged red-white-and-blue suit he'll wear as the new Captain America.

 

 

"We wanted Sam to engage in both a public and private conversation of what it means for a Black man to pick up such an iconic historically white symbol," Skogland told Entertainment Weekly about Sam's decision in Episode 5. "By starting off with his acknowledgment of how important it is as a symbol, and that it is connected to a bygone era, Sam opens the door to the idea that what defines a hero today is not the same ideal as it was when Steve first picked up the shield."

 

Skogland continued: "It is important that we explore all sides to its future as a symbol, given it represents the American flag and the deep history that comes with something that represents equality and freedom," the director continued. "It needs to be an ongoing discussion because those very coveted ideas that are the core to the American Dream are actually fragile and need to be protected from those that go down a slippery slope, no matter how well-intentioned, that actually puts freedom and equality in the crosshairs."