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Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service
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1,118 posts in this topic

43 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Unfortunately, it was poorly executed. No offense to anyone that was overjoyed with the entire episode. Nor to those that anything the MCU distributes they feel it is amazing and awesome (there are some with that mindset).

Like I noted earlier. The military executes battle drills to drive reactions into their muscle memory. I get what they were going for. But Sam already demonstrated strong skills with the shield early on. So later to convey he was all clumsy and confused and frustrated, it seemed ill-timed.

Not that folks shouldn't rejoice with every episode. If that is what you were expecting, thoroughly enjoy every second of this then. :foryou:

I felt this episode took a step down from what were two solid episodes in 3 and 4.  I know that Sam assuming the Role of Captain America is the main thrust of the show, but with two major plots with Walker and Zemo  resolving in the same episode, it feels like the two characters that were driving the show forward have left.  I fully expect Walker to be back in the final episode, but the way the losing the mantel story, really felt rushed. As others have said, the Flagsmashers, still seem poorly defined and not that big a threat, and that is overall what seems to be missing from this show.  Where is the big threat?  In WandaVision, Wanda was the threat, and that came across for me.  Here what Sam and Bucky are doing seems like something that the FBI could easily handle, without any Avengers needed.

 

As with the characters driven plots in the show, the Winter Solder remains far more compelling, I want to see that story.  Sam's story feels very mundane, and has been the slowest and weakest plot in the show. It seems like fluff leading to the inevitable point where he takes the mantel. 

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1 hour ago, drotto said:

I felt this episode took a step down from what were two solid episodes in 3 and 4.  I know that Sam assuming the Role of Captain America is the main thrust of the show, but with two major plots with Walker and Zemo  resolving in the same episode, it feels like the two characters that were driving the show forward have left.  I fully expect Walker to be back in the final episode, but the way the losing the mantel story, really felt rushed. As others have said, the Flagsmashers, still seem poorly defined and not that big a threat, and that is overall what seems to be missing from this show.  Where is the big threat?  In WandaVision, Wanda was the threat, and that came across for me.  Here what Sam and Bucky are doing seems like something that the FBI could easily handle, without any Avengers needed.

 

As with the characters driven plots in the show, the Winter Solder remains far more compelling, I want to see that story.  Sam's story feels very mundane, and has been the slowest and weakest plot in the show. It seems like fluff leading to the inevitable point where he takes the mantel. 

Pretty much agree with everything you’ve said. At the start of the episode my fiancé goes “Thank God I only have to watch two more episodes of this”. Karli and her group are absolutely horrible boring “villains”. I wish John Walker had taken her out the last episode. Falcon and his Forest Gump shrimpin boat Capain storyline is zzz

Edited by Mephisto
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11 hours ago, jharvey said:

There is also no way in the world that a non-super powered human could possibly throw and catch a metal shield like that. It just looked ridiculous.

The last time when Sam caught the outside of the shield with his hands my fiancé goes “Yeah his fingers would be gone.”

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Edited by Mephisto
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9 minutes ago, Mephisto said:

The last time when Sam caught the outside of the shield with his hands my fiancé goes “Yeah his fingers would gone.”

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I thought the exact same thing.  I was looking closely at his hand looking for blood as the director lingered on his "victory" in catching it.  :eek:

Any films these television series producers are involved in are films I'll be skeptical of.  :frown:

Edited by fantastic_four
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6 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

When Isaiah Bradley says to Sam "they will never let a black man be Captain America," he was not only referring to the U.S. government in the MCU, but also to some fans in real life. They know who they are.

Here we go... "You don't like what I like? Well then..."

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Like the Joker states in 'The Dark Knight': "I wanted to see what you'd do. And you didn't disappoint...:facepalm:

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On 4/17/2021 at 8:15 AM, jharvey said:

There is also no way in the world that a non-super powered human could possibly throw and catch a metal shield like that. It just looked ridiculous.

Nothing in the comics or the MCU has ever said that a normal human being can't throw and catch the Shield. Being a super soldier was never a prerequisite for wielding it. Wakandans use Vibranium weapons with deadly accuracy and force and they're not super-powered. And if you consider that the Shield is just a glorified frisbee or Olympic discus, just a little bigger and maybe a little heavier, then it works with the same laws of classical mechanics and Newtonian laws of motion in physics, allowing for a little leeway as it's a comic book action movie.

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12 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Here we go... "You don't like what I like? Well then..."

there_misogynist.gif.9eefe5cd2369fcf169899c0903aeb9ec.gif

 

thats_racist.gif.fe3010ea24e2fa9670e25319b92f0fd7.gif

Like the Joker states in 'The Dark Knight': "I wanted to see what you'd do. And you didn't disappoint...:facepalm:

With no apologies to Jeff Foxworthy, if you think the world is a good and pure place devoid of sexism or racism, then you just might be a white dude in America.

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5 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

With no apologies to Jeff Foxworthy, if you think the world is a good and pure place devoid of sexism or racism, then you just might be a white dude in America.

Yup. You know better in your small circle.

Your default when someone doesn't agree with something in the MCU involving a female or minority actor is it MUST be racism or misogyny. It's can't be the -script or the performance.

 

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10 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Yup. You know better in your small circle.

Your default when someone doesn't agree with something in the MCU involving a female or minority actor is it MUST be racism or misogyny. It's can't be the --script or the performance.

 

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I didn't say all fans, or even fans in this forum. I just said some fans. And those fans know who they are, except for the ones blind to their own hatred and/or reassign said hatred with a more palatable term like traditional values or other bs, which is also a very common thing.

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56 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

When Isaiah Bradley says to Sam "they will never let a black man be Captain America," he was not only referring to the U.S. government in the MCU, but also to some fans in real life. They know who they are.

Well said. This seems to be precisely what the creative team behind the show intends to demonstrate by the show itself. In this sense, therefore, the show itself breaks the fourth wall in pursuit of a real life political objective.  

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I have made two points:

1. The show is bad.

2. The show is politically motivated.

These two points can be argued as mutually exclusive or hopelessly interrelated. Either argument would require more sophistication than I'm willing to commit to my thinking or typing about the show.

This is because the show is bad. 

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38 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Nothing in the comics or the MCU has ever said that a normal human being can't throw and catch the Shield. Being a super soldier was never a prerequisite for wielding it. Wakandans use Vibranium weapons with deadly accuracy and force and they're not super-powered. And if you consider that the Shield is just a glorified frisbee or Olympic discus, just a little bigger and maybe a little heavier, then it works with the same laws of classical mechanics and Newtonian laws of motion in physics, allowing for a little leeway as it's a comic book action movie.

Oh come on. It is so completely impossible that it just looked stupid. At least if a super-powered being did it, you could attribute it to the super-power. With a normal human doing it, trying to maintain the suspense of disbelief was really tough.

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8 minutes ago, TupennyConan said:

Well said. This seems to be precisely what the creative team behind the show intends to demonstrate by the show itself. In this sense, therefore, the show itself breaks the fourth wall in pursuit of a real life political objective.  

On the flip side, someone posted a link in the Milestone Comics Fans group on Facebook (which – until they're regularly publishing a line of comics again, I suppose – consists mainly of news and promotion of comics that feature people of color) of the upcoming black female Captain America in the United States of Captain America mini, and one of the comments on that was "A darker skinned person like me defending a white concept? really?" 

Let's face it; this country has a history of racism, and we're not past that now. A person of color is going to face hurdles that a white person doesn't (on top of all of the ones that a white person does). Not directing this specifically at anyone or in response to any specific position. 

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21 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I didn't say all fans, or even fans in this forum. I just said some fans. And those fans know who they are, except for the ones blind to their own hatred and/or reassign said hatred with a more palatable term like traditional values or other bs, which is also a very common thing.

Unfortunately, that's the pattern where you seem to take the conversations. And with the excuse it happened someplace else, so you are going to ensure it doesn't happen here. Even though a person on here may not even be hinted to a racial concern not a gender concern.

The show is trying to address race as part of its theme. Especially by involving Isaiah's horrible situation in storyline. I respect that as then the general audience can relate to the themes. Unfortunately, the -script is not delivering in a solid way other than using such emotional influences. That would be a shame if by Episode 6 this doesn't come together solidly as it has tried to make a relevant statement without the punch.

We'll know by next week. But we are 5:6 episodes in and the story hasn't been a steady stream up.

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51 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Nothing in the comics or the MCU has ever said that a normal human being can't throw and catch the Shield. Being a super soldier was never a prerequisite for wielding it. Wakandans use Vibranium weapons with deadly accuracy and force and they're not super-powered. And if you consider that the Shield is just a glorified frisbee or Olympic discus, just a little bigger and maybe a little heavier, then it works with the same laws of classical mechanics and Newtonian laws of motion in physics, allowing for a little leeway as it's a comic book action movie.

I'm willing to suspend disbelief, because the show isn't about the physics of the shield, and would quickly become a parody if it followed the laws of physics and Cap had to go retrieve his shield EVERY TIME he threw it. That said, if we're meant to believe that the shield, when thrown at enemy combatants, can incapacitate them, but it doesn't if you manage to catch it with your normal human fingers, then that's a little bit of a problem. For me, the show is doing a great job of character-building and establishing the motivations of all of the different parties involved that makes you sympathetic o all of them when considering their side, so I'll overlook the shield, because that's so baked into Captain America that you've got to let *something* go if you want to see comics on the screen.

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I'm a fan of this show, but I agree some of the editing/scenes haven't been smooth.  Themes feel spot on given the world they've established and the world at large today.  I also like most of the writing choices, as we get multiple perspectives and motivations that clash with one another in most of the episodes.  But I think they are trying to squish too much into the bottle here, making it feel less smooth than it might.  Main actors are doing great, IMO, but some of the secondary roles feel weaker in comparison.  Overall grade from me so far:  B+

D

ps the shield stuff bothers me less than some, but I agree it would take a 'super' person to do so without damage or danger.

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I think the show has it's good and bad moments.

Anyone who read the original John Walker storyline in the Eighties likely could follow some of the stuff that happened; I was kind of surprised at the amount of people and reviewers I've seen who are like "John Walker is unstable! What's gonna happen NEXT?!" but I guess that's modern pop culture for ya.

I thought Carl Lumbly was GREAT as Isaiah Bradley. I remember he played a super-hero in the 90s' when I was in middle school called M.A.N.T.I.S.

I think the MCU really underestimates how government works in real life. Not trying to stoke people's opinions here, but the level of outrage and immediate reaction to Walker killing a Flag Smasher in broad daylight when he's an official representative and the Flag Smashers are considered terrorists... is laughable. And insensitive, in my opinion, when we have people killed or arrested unlawfully all the time and there seems to be no such outrage from the people at the top. 

This is not just native to the Falcon/Winter Soldier show but I never can stop noticing the very Hollywood decision to film certain dramatic scenes in rooms with NO LIGHTING. Like... John Walker is appearing before the Senate or something.. that courtroom couldn't turn on the LIGHTS? Why is it so dark?

I wondered if we were also seeing the MCU introduction of classic Hulk sidekick Jim Wilson, who, in the comics, is the Falcon's nephew... but, unless Sam's sister kept her maiden name, I guess neither of those kids are! 

I think you guys arguing about Bradley's message here are maybe seeing it- no pun intended, I swear- as a little too black and white. Is it possible at all that this is meant to show an understandable generational difference? Or some kind of progress in outlook? Since, obviously, Sam doesn't AGREE with Isaiah, even if he respects and empathizes with what he went through. Sam knows it's all true- he just thinks things have changed, and need to continue to change, and so that's what leads him to devote himself to becoming Cap, and leading by example.

Personally I think it's great for the MCU. I was against Sam becoming Cap in the comics for a simple reason- it's secondary, and not very progressive at ALL. Marvel did it too late and to get mainstream attention for how socially aware they are... but it's insulting, because besides being secondary, it's TEMPORARY.. Sam was just gonna stop being Cap as soon as the editors brought Steve Rogers back, right? So how is that ground-breaking? Hey, you can be the "second" Captain America. (Well, more like the 5th or 6th depending on continuity)... it's akin to calling a character 'Spider-Gwen' and thinking that's empowering. "Here, you're a derivative of an existing male hero. See how empowering we are?"

But in the MCU, the actor playing Cap has moved on as has the character's arc. Sam Wilson being Captain America opens up new stories. 

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