• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service
3 3

1,118 posts in this topic

On 4/17/2021 at 10:14 AM, adampasz said:

I am pretty mixed on this show, and I think this was the weakest episode.

The cast, production design, and cinematography are great. And I admire their desire to tackle topical issues, but I feel the execution is lacking. I don't mind a "catch-your-breath" episode, but I had a hard time not being bored. It seems like they plot, and dialogue could have used another round of rewrites and tightening up to make this work.

  • The JLD cameo just took me out of the story. She's great, but she will always be Elaine for me. Maybe it would have worked better as the after-credits scene...
  • The boat fixing scene was dull. I didn't feel the stakes for Sam's family. It seemed too easy to call up all their friends and throw a fund-raiser to solve the problem.
  • Is Sam really so bad at using tools that Bucky had to help him twice?
  • The shield training montage was silly. The physics of the shield are not really working for me, as noted by people above. He's Captain America, not Captain Boomerang. I am willing to forgive comic book physics/action, but they did the same gimmick so many times in this episode, it really called attention to itself. Part of the problem with training montages they don't generate conflict or narrative that draw you into the story. They're just filler. Usually they work best when they're funny, or tell a mini-story of some kind. But this one was just a work-out video.
  • I don't get why Sam would give up the wings. He is a total badass with the wings already, and they can protect him. I guess he just wants to become the symbol, and to honor the legacy or something..? There are interesting ideas here, but the presentation is not clear enough.
  • Point being, Sam's motivations are still not completely clear to me. In this show, he's portrayed frequently as confused and ambivalent -- which maybe is realistic -- but is not a clear character motivation that drives the narrative forward. I think Anthony Mackie is a good actor, and very charismatic, but the writers aren't giving him enough to work with, so he spends a lot of the time brooding.
  • The 2nd Isiah Bradley scene was long and talky, like the first one. I would have preferred to see it in flashback. HBO Watchmen Episode 6 did a better job with a similar concept.  I don't mind long dialogue scenes, but I just don't think the level of dialogue writing on the show is enough to keep it interesting. Also, it's not clearly tied into the rest of the story.
  • The other B- and C-plots also seem disconnected and meandering. Agent 13/Powerbroker(?) had one action episode, but now she's just sitting around making phone calls. Carly & The Flagsmashers also just spent the episode hanging around looking angsty. Same goes for Dora & The Wakandans. They didn't really have much of an objective in the show, except to be a foil for Bucky. Again, all these stories seem to suffer from a lack of stakes and dramatic tension.
  • Also, the Flagsmashers haven't seemed scary or threatening since the first episode. They just seem like a bunch of hipsters hanging around.
  • The John Walker arc isn't landing for me. Sam and Bucky spent the first 3 episodes killing people indiscriminately, and faced no consequences. Yet suddenly the show makes a big hoopla about Walker killing one of the bad guys in an act of revenge for his friend's death. Is it only bad because he was caught on camera by dozens of bystanders?
  • I'll admit I was tired when I watched, but I didn't really get the details Walker's punishment. They stripped him of being Captain America, but he gets to keep his military rank and loses his pension? I feel like the show is trying to make some points, but it's very muddled.
  • Also the scene with Battlestar's parents didn't connect for me because I never felt I got to know the character. Was that his wife or sister? The show didn't bother to explain. (Or it's possible I dozed off and missed it.)
  • The big action scene with Sam, Bucky and JW was lame. It's 2 on 1, so, didn't seem like much of a challenge for the good guys. And it didn't feel cinematic. They're just running around in a big room, hitting each other.
  • I don't really get who's authorizing Sam and Bucky to do stuff, or who they report to? The US Military? The GRC? Or are they acting independently. A lot of the background and world-building feels too sketchy.
  • Too bad Zemo left. He was the best part of the show. Hopefully he will be back for a Thunderbolts show or movie.

Sorry for the rant. Not trying to go to war with anyone who likes the show. I just wish I could like it more. :)

Maybe it helped that my expectations were lower, but I loved the last episode.  I think it mostly comes down to execution: the action, camerawork, dialogue, editing, etc. just seemed tighter. Character motivations were clearer. It helped that characters just came out and said what their objective was, instead of spending a lot of time brooding around. 
They were able to pull together enough dangling plot points from the first episode to make everything feel a bit more cohesive. Agent 13 got to do something besides sit in her office and talk on the phone. I enjoyed the Zemo bit, and JLD worked better for me in this one -- maybe because I was ready for her appearance this time. Even the Isaiah Bradley scene was better because he actually got to leave his house and do something. (OK, so it was just a visit to the Smithsonian, but still...)

Edited by adampasz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, drmanhattanite said:

great episode, great series. Marvel is taking risks and its paying off in spades, while DC sputters to make the same content over and over

Why does it always go here with some people?

Yeah, Doom Patrol, Young Justice, Titans, Green Lantern Corps, Adam Strange, Black Adam, Aquaman 2 and others are really rehashes.

:facepalm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, drmanhattanite said:

great episode, great series. Marvel is taking risks and its paying off in spades, while DC sputters to make the same content over and over

I would argue though that the HBO Watchmen series is one of the best comic book films/shows ever. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I would argue though that the HBO Watchmen series is one of the best comic book films/shows ever. 

Agree. This is not traditional DC as I mean the Justice League universe, etc. WW84 was not a success. They have no direction, and fire/hire people at will, is what I mean. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  

13 minutes ago, drmanhattanite said:

Agree. This is not traditional DC as I mean the Justice League universe, etc. WW84 was not a success. They have no direction, and fire/hire people at will, is what I mean. 

Not to pick on you, but that's not actually what you implied.

1 hour ago, drmanhattanite said:

great episode, great series. Marvel is taking risks and its paying off in spades, while DC sputters to make the same content over and over

You were attempting to convey DC just does the same content over and over. Right? So then when all the different content gets posted, then it is how broken WB Studios is (which is factual).

Better to just enjoy what you enjoy, and not make things an unnecessary and toxic competition. It makes for much better discussions. :tink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

C’mon man - if you can’t see both the humor and truth of the DC v Marvel comparisons by now, you’re just being willfully obtuse.

When are we getting a Flash / Flashpoint film? 2023? Is that before or after we see:

Justice League 2

Cyborg

Deathstroke

Lobo

Gotham City Sirens

Justice League Dark

The Trench

New Gods

Deathstroke

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was glad to see Zemo still doing his thing from the raft.  Other than him I thought it was an ok show, nothing to write home about.  WandaVision left me wanting more, this one, not so much.

Spoiler

I am wondering if the Sharon Carter we saw in this series was a Skrull.  That really didn't seem like the same Sharon Carter from Winter Soldier or Civil War.  And with the Secret Invasion storyline seeming to be getting its own show this could be a starting point.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

C’mon man - if you can’t see both the humor and truth of the DC v Marvel comparisons by now, you’re just being willfully obtuse.

When are we getting a Flash / Flashpoint film? 2023? Is that before or after we see:

Justice League 2

Cyborg

Deathstroke

Lobo

Gotham City Sirens

Justice League Dark

The Trench

New Gods

Deathstroke

Obtuse? From the dude that plays revisionist and ignorant all in the same act. Wow! Are you wearing your costume tonight?

Sure, the film side is not as steady at all as the MCU. But did you forget we are in a STREAMING SHOW thread?

  • Adam Strange/Strange Adventures (in development)
  • Aquaman: King of Atlantis (in development)
  • Batgirl (in development - announced at AT&T Investor Day)
  • Constantine (in development)
  • DMZ (in development)
  • Doom Patrol
  • Gotham City Nights (in development)
  • Green Lantern Corps (in development)
  • Harley Quinn TAS
  • Justice League Dark (in development)
  • Peacemaker (in development)
  • Stargirl
  • Superman and Lois
  • Titans
  • Young Justice
  • Zatanna (in development - announced at AT&T Investor Day)

Obtuse? Maybe stop being so full of yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, media_junkie said:

Was glad to see Zemo still doing his thing from the raft.  Other than him I thought it was an ok show, nothing to write home about.  WandaVision left me wanting more, this one, not so much.

  Hide contents

I am wondering if the Sharon Carter we saw in this series was a Skrull.  That really didn't seem like the same Sharon Carter from Winter Soldier or Civil War.  And with the Secret Invasion storyline seeming to be getting its own show this could be a starting point.

 

I did not think about your Sharon theory, I like it.

 

This show was ok, I am glad I watched it, I do not feel the need to watch it again. My biggest criticism of the show is I found it very predictable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just finished the last episode. I thought it was great. Was it perfect? Obviously not. The flag smasher arc seemed a little off but I think it got derailed by pandemic issues.

I think the Sam Bucky dynamic was done well. Ending was great with the kids hanging on Bucky's arm. 

Whatever I'm a Marvel fan. I had fun. Sue me lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did anyone else catch the Secret Service Chief saying "I thought Captain America was on the moon" at the 4 minute mark? I'm wondering if he'll show up in Secret Invasion & maybe they'll even introduce The Watcher in the MCU.

Edited by chezmtghut
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
3 3