Cap 1 vs Bats 1 5 5

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

23 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

Cap 1 for me as well. I can’t think of another mega key that has everything Cap 1 has :

1. Classic cover 

2. Origin story. 
3.  Arch villain first appearance. 
4. Side kick origin and first appearance

5. First appearance of future main player in Winter Soldier  

6. Most importantly to me main Hero’s first appearance. 
7. Only mainstay GA hero still relevant in pop culture today from the # 1 comic publisher 

 

 

 

 

I agree, but keep thinking Torch and Namor will continue their efforts for our hearts and minds

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I agree, but keep thinking Torch and Namor will continue their efforts for our hearts and minds

Different Torch and Namor wasn't a Timely creation.  

-J.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

22 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Different Torch and Namor wasn't a Timely creation.  

-J.

But Namor was but a wee lad when Timely put in the adoption papers

[Wayne-Tec]

Since we don't know if individual buyers end up paying the 3% BP on CL, I've revised the recent sales to remove CL BP.

 

Cap #1 CGC 0.5 (missing 4 center wraps) sold for $39,500 in total. ($79,000 per-point)

Cap #1 CGC 2.5 sold for $86,000. LINK ($34,400 per-point)

 

Batman #1 CGC 4.0 sold for $110,100. LINK ($27,525 per-point)

Batman #1 CGC 3.5 (slightly brittle PQ) sold for $83,000 in total. LINK ($23,714 per-point)

 

The entry-level market for Cap #1 is aggressive. I'm sure the same is true for Batman #1. How much do you feel a Batman #1 Universal 0.5, missing 4 center wraps, would go for today?

Edited May 27, 2020 by Wayne-Tec

[Wayne-Tec]

12 hours ago, Chicago Boy said:

Cap 1 for me as well. I can’t think of another mega key that has everything Cap 1 has :

1. Classic cover 

2. Origin story. 
3.  Arch villain first appearance. 
4. Side kick origin and first appearance

5. First appearance of future main player in Winter Soldier  

6. Most importantly to me main Hero’s first appearance. 
7. Only mainstay GA hero still relevant in pop culture today from the # 1 comic publisher 

All good points.

From a “wealth of content” perspective, Cap #1 and Batman #1 may be in a league of their own. The 1st appearances of Superman and Batman top the 1st appearances of Cap and Joker. So the Top-2 books of the hobby are firmly established. How to rank the “other 4 of the Big-6” is the question. 

Rarity:

Marvel #1 > Superman #1/Cap #1 > Batman #1

• Total CGC/Voldy slabbed copies in 0.5+ are: 70 Marvel #1, 174 Superman #1, 186 Cap #1, 301 Batman #1. Given the popularity of Superman, it’s possible that there may exist more copies of Superman #1 than Cap #1 “in the wild.”

Cover:

Cap #1 > Superman #1 > Batman #1/Marvel #1

Content:

Cap #1

• 1st app. of Captain America

• 1st app. of the Red Skull

• 1st app. of Hitler (cover only)

• 1st app. of Bucky (later to become the Winter Soldier)

• 1st mention of “Thor, God of Thunder” in Marvel Comics

• 2nd app. of Makkari of The Eternals (The Hurricane)

• Classic cover

 

Batman #1

• 1st app. of the Joker

• 1st app. of Catwoman

• 2nd app. of Hugo Strange

• 3rd app. of Robin

• Batman’s origin reprinted

• Classic cover

 

Marvel Comics #1

• 1st “Marvel Universe” comic book

• 1st app. of the GA Human Torch

• 1st app of The Angel

• 2nd app. of Sub-Mariner (1st newsstand app.)

• Classic cover

 

Superman #1

• 1st comic book devoted to a superhero

• 1st app. of “Ma” and “Pa” Kent

• Action Comics #1-4 reprinted

• Classic cover
 

Content: Cap #1, Batman #1, Marvel #1, Superman #1

Some May disagree with my content-rankings. The “1st superhero solo book” and the “1st Marvel Universe book” are undoubtedly monumental milestones of extreme importance. But from front-to-back, I’m not sure that tops the wealth of content that Cap #1 and Batman #1 bring to the table.

Taking into account rarity, historical significance and content, my rankings today would probably be...

1. Action Comics #1

2. Detective Comics #27

3. Captain America Comics #1

4. Superman #1

5. Batman #1

[lou_fine]

On 5/27/2020 at 5:45 AM, telerites said:

On 5/27/2020 at 4:18 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Compared to Heritage it doesn’t seem like a BP, but Clink has a 3% BP.

Is this the credit card fees that they pass on?  Have they changed where if you pay by check or money order, that fee is waived?  Other places like CC, Pedigree, Weiss, etc., do the same.  

I don't believe that CC adds in the 3% credit card fee as a BP to the buyer if they use their credit card to pay for their winnings.  

I have heard that the 3% credit card fee is taken off the top line gross proceeds or really more of a SP in this case which means that the 3% fee is absorbed by both the consignor and CC on a 90% and 10% split basis respectively.  Although I believe the max allowable credit card charge is $2,500 or something like that, but still NO additional BP charge to the winning buyers. 

[Mmehdy]

On 5/27/2020 at 7:19 AM, Chicago Boy said:

Cap 1 for me as well. I can’t think of another mega key that has everything Cap 1 has :

1. Classic cover 

2. Origin story. 
3.  Arch villain first appearance. 
4. Side kick origin and first appearance

5. First appearance of future main player in Winter Soldier  

6. Most importantly to me main Hero’s first appearance. 
7. Only mainstay GA hero still relevant in pop culture today from the # 1 comic publisher 

 

 

 

 

i will second that

[Mmehdy]

14 hours ago, Wayne-Tec said:

All good points.

From a “wealth of content” perspective, Cap #1 and Batman #1 may be in a league of their own. The 1st appearances of Superman and Batman top the 1st appearances of Cap and Joker. So the Top-2 books of the hobby are firmly established. How to rank the “other 4 of the Big-6” is the question. 

Rarity:

Marvel #1 > Superman #1/Cap #1 > Batman #1

• Total CGC/Voldy slabbed copies in 0.5+ are: 70 Marvel #1, 174 Superman #1, 186 Cap #1, 301 Batman #1. Given the popularity of Superman, it’s possible that there may exist more copies of Superman #1 than Cap #1 “in the wild.”

Cover:

Cap #1 > Superman #1 > Batman #1/Marvel #1

Content:

Cap #1

• 1st app. of Captain America

• 1st app. of the Red Skull

• 1st app. of Hitler (cover only)

• 1st app. of Bucky (later to become the Winter Soldier)

• 1st mention of “Thor, God of Thunder” in Marvel Comics

• 2nd app. of Makkari of The Eternals (The Hurricane)

• Classic cover

 

Batman #1

• 1st app. of the Joker

• 1st app. of Catwoman

• 2nd app. of Hugo Strange

• 3rd app. of Robin

• Batman’s origin reprinted

• Classic cover

 

Marvel Comics #1

• 1st “Marvel Universe” comic book

• 1st app. of the GA Human Torch

• 1st app of The Angel

• 2nd app. of Sub-Mariner (1st newsstand app.)

• Classic cover

 

Superman #1

• 1st comic book devoted to a superhero

• 1st app. of “Ma” and “Pa” Kent

• Action Comics #1-4 reprinted

• Classic cover
 

Content: Cap #1, Batman #1, Marvel #1, Superman #1

Some May disagree with my content-rankings. The “1st superhero solo book” and the “1st Marvel Universe book” are undoubtedly monumental milestones of extreme importance. But from front-to-back, I’m not sure that tops the wealth of content that Cap #1 and Batman #1 bring to the table.

Taking into account rarity, historical significance and content, my rankings today would probably be...

1. Action Comics #1

2. Detective Comics #27

3. Captain America Comics #1

4. Superman #1

5. Batman #1

exactly on those rankings

[Wayne-Tec]

I forgot to include Marvel #1.

1. Action Comics #1

2. Detective Comics #27

3. Captain America Comics #1

4. Marvel Comics #1

5. Superman #1

6. Batman #1

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

On 5/27/2020 at 7:19 AM, Chicago Boy said:

Cap 1 for me as well. I can’t think of another mega key that has everything Cap 1 has :

1. Classic cover 

2. Origin story. 
3.  Arch villain first appearance. 
4. Side kick origin and first appearance

5. First appearance of future main player in Winter Soldier  

6. Most importantly to me main Hero’s first appearance. 
7. Only mainstay GA hero still relevant in pop culture today from the # 1 comic publisher 

 

i will second that

Wow, what an absolute shocker      and totally unexpected, especially since it's coming from you.    

Edited May 28, 2020 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, Wayne-Tec said:

I forgot to include Marvel #1.

1. Action Comics #1

2. Detective Comics #27

3. Captain America Comics #1

4. Marvel Comics #1

5. Superman #1

6. Batman #1

Well, if it's that forgettable, than maybe just maybe, Marvel 1 doesn't belong on this esteemed list of yours.  

[telerites]

4 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I don't believe that CC adds in the 3% credit card fee as a BP to the buyer if they use their credit card to pay for their winnings.  

I have heard that the 3% credit card fee is taken off the top line gross proceeds or really more of a SP in this case which means that the 3% fee is absorbed by both the consignor and CC on a 90% and 10% split basis respectively.  Although I believe the max allowable credit card charge is $2,500 or something like that, but still NO additional BP charge to the winning buyers. 

Lou

I am not sure if CC changed or not as in the past I did not incur the 3% but this time I did.  Here is what their site says:

All fee-bearing payment types such as credit card or PayPal will incur a surcharge of 3%. Payment by cash, check, money order, ACH, or wire transfer will not incur a surcharge. This fee only applies to fee-bearing payment types such as credit cards or PayPal, and does not exceed ComicConnect’s cost of processing.

[lou_fine]

41 minutes ago, telerites said:

4 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I don't believe that CC adds in the 3% credit card fee as a BP to the buyer if they use their credit card to pay for their winnings.  

I have heard that the 3% credit card fee is taken off the top line gross proceeds or really more of a SP in this case which means that the 3% fee is absorbed by both the consignor and CC on a 90% and 10% split basis respectively.  Although I believe the max allowable credit card charge is $2,500 or something like that, but still NO additional BP charge to the winning buyers. 

Lou

I am not sure if CC changed or not as in the past I did not incur the 3% but this time I did.  Here is what their site says:

All fee-bearing payment types such as credit card or PayPal will incur a surcharge of 3%. Payment by cash, check, money order, ACH, or wire transfer will not incur a surcharge. This fee only applies to fee-bearing payment types such as credit cards or PayPal, and does not exceed ComicConnect’s cost of processing.

Well, that's interesting as I guess they may have updated their 3% credit card/PayPal payment policy when they revamped their auction website then.  

Unless they are charging the 3% fee at both the front end (i.e. BP to the buyer) and also again at the back end (i.e. SP to the consignor).     

[G.A.tor]

On 5/27/2020 at 4:26 PM, Wayne-Tec said:

Since we don't know if individual buyers end up paying the 3% BP on CL, I've revised the recent sales to remove CL BP.

 

Cap #1 CGC 0.5 (missing 4 center wraps) sold for $39,500 in total. ($79,000 per-point)

Cap #1 CGC 2.5 sold for $86,000. LINK ($34,400 per-point)

 

Batman #1 CGC 4.0 sold for $110,100. LINK ($27,525 per-point)

Batman #1 CGC 3.5 (slightly brittle PQ) sold for $83,000 in total. LINK ($23,714 per-point)

 

The entry-level market for Cap #1 is aggressive. I'm sure the same is true for Batman #1. How much do you feel a Batman #1 Universal 0.5, missing 4 center wraps, would go for today?

I’ve never paid the 3%. I suspect no established buyers do 

[G.A.tor]

We relegated ourselves to comparing bat 1 and cap 1 but a more appropriate comparison is cap 1 to Tec 27 or action 1, first appearances an all

[Wayne-Tec]

1 hour ago, G.A.tor said:

We relegated ourselves to comparing bat 1 and cap 1 but a more appropriate comparison is cap 1 to Tec 27 or action 1, first appearances an all

IMO, it’s Action #1 and Tec #27 as 1-A and 1-B. If Cap #1 is (or becomes) the No. 3 book in the hobby, it will be a distant 3rd.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

[G.A.tor]

23 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said:

IMO, it’s Action #1 and Tec #27 as 1-A and 1-B. If Cap #1 is (or becomes) the No. 3 book in the hobby, it will be a distant 3rd.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

It’s too “common” to become the #3 book. I was speaking to relative comparison. Cap 1 is first comics appearance. Bat 1 is what, 10th?

[Wayne-Tec]

1 minute ago, G.A.tor said:

It’s too “common” to become the #3 book. I was speaking to relative comparison. Cap 1 is first comics appearance. Bat 1 is what, 10th?

I getcha. Batman #1 is actually his 14th appearance. Joker is considered by most to he the greatest villain in comic book history. How do we compare the No. 1 villain to a Top-10 (but probably not Top-5) hero?

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

I’ve never paid the 3%. I suspect no established buyers do 

Are you referring to CL or to CC and is this also because you never use a credit card or PayPal as your method of payment for your winnings?  

[telerites]

8 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, that's interesting as I guess they may have updated their 3% credit card/PayPal payment policy when they revamped their auction website then.  

Unless they are charging the 3% fee at both the front end (i.e. BP to the buyer) and also again at the back end (i.e. SP to the consignor).     

That could be it.  This is the first time I have ever sent a check to CC due to a 3% fee for using a CC or PP.  I had normally had my CC on file charged.