Subscription fold 0

[Eds]

I have a Fantastic Four 52 has the standard subscription fold from back in the day was just curious what's the average grade or highest grade a book with a subscription fold can receive I've only been a cgc member since July so this is my first time using the chat board if this is in the wrong spot I apologize any advice or pointers be appreciated thank you

[theCapraAegagrus]

15 hours ago, Eds said:

I have a Fantastic Four 52 has the standard subscription fold from back in the day was just curious what's the average grade or highest grade a book with a subscription fold can receive I've only been a cgc member since July so this is my first time using the chat board if this is in the wrong spot I apologize any advice or pointers be appreciated thank you

This is the correct spot for this post.

My grading skills are very amateur. IMO it's a: 3.5

[marvelmaniac]

IMO it is a GD/VG 3.0 due to the tape.

The grading standards state that a book in GD/VG 3.0 is allowed a "book length crease" so a subscription crease does not affect books in this grade. 

How much would a subscription crease detract from a higher grade book would all depend on the overall condition of that book.

As far as I am concerned...

I personally have no problem with a book with a subscription crease, it is the way things were done back then. (folded in half and placed in a plain brown folder), I actually had subscriptions back in the 60's.

It is part of the history of the book,IMO it gives the book personality, to me it is no different than a book with an "arrival date" or "distributor ink".

[evilskip]

It used to be that a sub fold dropped it down to a vg.

That tape is a killer (for me anyway) and wouldn't go any higher than a 3.0. Your CGC mileage may vary.

[Conacon]

I think the tape is on the bag, not the comic. It looks like he taped it to the grid board.

[FineCollector]

That's a 4.0.  The crease is obtrusive, but not a killer. If it were a sharper copy, I'd say 4.5 was possible.

[Karl Liebl]

Mine is at the grader today with a subscription fold.  I will let you know what they say hopefully tomorrow...

[Unstoppablejayd]

OP- I have heard some varying reports on subscription folds (I have an Xmen 12 with one going in shortly). Some say you can go into up to 6 with one.. while most say it gets you into the 4s no matter what else may be an issue. 

FYI the people on these boards are very good at grading to CGC standards but they need good info. I recommend posting pics og the book out of the bag- front and back and then close ups of the corners and any blemishes... good luck! 

[Gnasher]

5 hours ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

OP- I have heard some varying reports on subscription folds (I have an Xmen 12 with one going in shortly). Some say you can go into up to 6 with one.. while most say it gets you into the 4s no matter what else may be an issue. 

And obviously that is dependent upon the severity of the crease and whether it's back or front cover. 

I'm with the 4.0's on this one.

[Eds]

23 hours ago, marvelmaniac said:

IMO it is a GD/VG 3.0 due to the tape.

The grading standards state that a book in GD/VG 3.0 is allowed a "book length crease" so a subscription crease does not affect books in this grade. 

How much would a subscription crease detract from a higher grade book would all depend on the overall condition of that book.

As far as I am concerned...

I personally have no problem with a book with a subscription crease, it is the way things were done back then. (folded in half and placed in a plain brown folder), I actually had subscriptions back in the 60's.

It is part of the history of the book,IMO it gives the book personality, to me it is no different than a book with an "arrival date" or "distributor ink".

 

[Gnasher]

Seeing it now, I agree with FineCollector that could do the 4.5. 

 

[Karl Liebl]

The FF 13 with a subscription crease got a 5.5..

[marvelmaniac]

50 minutes ago, Karl Liebl said:

The FF 13 with a subscription crease got a 5.5..

So just like an earlier thread about how much "Marvel Chipping" would detract from the grade and that book received a FN 6.0 with no reduction for the chipping it seems that CGC is starting to accept things like Marvel Chipping as a Printer/Bindery Defect and Subscription Creases as Normal (They already accepted "Written and Stamped Arrival Dates") for books from the 60's and grading accordingly.

Although I do not have my books graded by CGC it makes me happy to see they are coming around on what was normal for the period and has nothing to do with "normal" wear and tear.

[makeminemego]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:49 AM, marvelmaniac said:

So just like an earlier thread about how much "Marvel Chipping" would detract from the grade and that book received a FN 6.0 with no reduction for the chipping it seems that CGC is starting to accept things like Marvel Chipping as a Printer/Bindery Defect and Subscription Creases as Normal (They already accepted "Written and Stamped Arrival Dates") for books from the 60's and grading accordingly.

Although I do not have my books graded by CGC it makes me happy to see they are coming around on what was normal for the period and has nothing to do with "normal" wear and tear.

I actually go out of my way to find subscription creased copies.  They can in many cases be some of the cleaner mid grade books available.  I have no idea why or any facts to back up my claim, but I believe they have WHITE pages more frequently than other mid grade books (although I could be wrong and it just seems that way).  

In my experience, very clean examples with little wear other than a "light" sub crease tend to top out at 5.5 when certified. Just my experience though.

[Gnasher]

On 11/15/2018 at 4:49 PM, marvelmaniac said:

So just like an earlier thread about how much "Marvel Chipping" would detract from the grade and that book received a FN 6.0 with no reduction for the chipping it seems that CGC is starting to accept things like Marvel Chipping as a Printer/Bindery Defect and Subscription Creases as Normal (They already accepted "Written and Stamped Arrival Dates") for books from the 60's and grading accordingly.

Although I do not have my books graded by CGC it makes me happy to see they are coming around on what was normal for the period and has nothing to do with "normal" wear and tear.

This is the link to which I think people refer to 6.0 with a sub. crease.

1 hour ago, makeminemego said:

I actually go out of my way to find subscription creased copies.  They can in many cases be some of the cleaner mid grade books available.  I have no idea why or any facts to back up my claim, but I believe they have WHITE pages more frequently than other mid grade books (although I could be wrong and it just seems that way).  

In my experience, very clean examples with little wear other than a "light" sub crease tend to top out at 5.5 when certified. Just my experience though.

Concur entirely with this. It depends on that definition of a fold or crease. Likewise I've picked up a few nice copies.

[comicjack]

In the old days a sub crease most of the time got a 4.0/4.5 but its nice to see that has changed.I have many with sub creases and most are still great to me 

[comicjack]

On 11/14/2018 at 9:29 PM, Karl Liebl said:

Mine is at the grader today with a subscription fold.  I will let you know what they say hopefully tomorrow...

A beauty 

[Karl Liebl]

6 minutes ago, comicjack said:

A beauty 

They didn't ding me for dirt so I am kind of interested to see what it looks like after CCS pressing.  It has Kirby sig on splash page and CGS put it on the label, and yes I took pictures before.  They did note the fold in grader notes.  It is the one on the bottom, obviously hehe.  It should be here in couple days and I will post another pic...

[1950's war comics]

i did not realize until i read this thread that sub-creased books could now get higher than a CGC 4.5

good to know !!

[The Lions Den]

To my knowledge, CGC didn't ever "automatically" grade a book in the VG range because of a subscription crease. While a full-length sub-crease on the front cover generally will result in a book winding up in the 5.0 range, other factors are always taken into consideration as well, such as how heavy the crease is and how nice the rest of the book is. The FF #52 shown in the above pictures would likely grade in the 4.5 or 5.0 range due to the heavy, color breaking sub-crease. The FF 13 likely graded a 5.5 because even though the sub-crease breaks color, it's lighter and more difficult to see. It's nice to see that CGC continues to adhere to their basic grading principles---grading the entire book and adjusting the grade accordingly.