COMICLINK Fall Featured Auction 1 1

[Twanj]

7 hours ago, zhamlau said:

I actively bid on one piece, the New Mutants Cover. I was winning it for the last week or so, and was prepared to go to 6000 for it, I managed to push it to the 5's and as i went to the 6k bid it was already above so didnt stick. Once again, everything I want to buy has people falling out of the sky to go nuts on it. It was offered i think for 7500 at San Diego this year but was not up for negotiation price wise. I have a hard time justifying coming close to a 7k for a mid run New Mutants cover by a mid range artist (a popular one but this isnt exactly Jim Lee material) but its become clear to me if i want late 80s early 90s marvel I have to be willing to fight really hard for it. My consignments went poorly as well, but not horrific just well below what I would have thought based on recent sales.

New Mutants #49 cover was listed at GC at $11k, #69 at $10k then $8k.

[Twanj]

7 hours ago, comix4fun said:

Sure thing. Really, looking at that page, the most valuable thing might be all of Stan's handwritten notes regarding dialogue and action. Love seeing the backstory on these pages. 

I always thought that blocky text was Kirby's?

[comix4fun]

1 minute ago, Twanj said:

I always thought that blocky text was Kirby's?

 Now I have to look, you've got me doubting myself. I've seen the same text on pages Kirby fully penciled and it included dialogue and plotting, which Stan's job. 

[Greenlake]

3 hours ago, comix4fun said:

 Now I have to look, you've got me doubting myself. I've seen the same text on pages Kirby fully penciled and it included dialogue and plotting, which Stan's job. 

I've read before that it would go: Stan gives the general outline, Kirby draws things up and writes notes, then Stan takes that and writes the story. It would also make sense why some of the notes don't match the final dialogue very well, since Stan would be more likely to override someone else's notes than his own. The FF 66 page's notes are a little different than what's on the page, although you argue how meaningful it is. Other notes I've seen are near verbatim dialogue.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Greenlake
trying to clarify

[First Upgrade]

8 hours ago, Grant Turner said:

which books would you say undersold in this last auction? And if they do undersell is that just a fortuitous opportunity for the buyer or an indicator that the FMV might be dropping?

 

Regarding the various examples of Incredible Hulk 181's, offered in this Featured auction, below CGC 9.0...five examples...

...ended below 'FMV', or at least below many comic dealers/sellers current public sales results of other CGC graded examples, per GPAnalysis data...and their 90-day average sales prices...

Based on this specific cohort, both assertions are supported...the 'FMV' is dropping and it's just a fortuitous opportunity, for FIVE BIDDERS(?)...

[blizzardtonight]

14 hours ago, oldwhy said:

Unfortunately the one page I bought (Don Rosa Donald Duck Adventures) was right at FMV 😀. 

I‘m curious, what pieces seemed underpriced to you?

The only other item I was bidding on was the Gammill Action cover and I felt that went for a VERY healthy price. 

yes...the gammill was unfotunately to "healthy" for me...:-)

[glendgold]

4 hours ago, comix4fun said:

 Now I have to look, you've got me doubting myself. I've seen the same text on pages Kirby fully penciled and it included dialogue and plotting, which Stan's job. 

You're adorable.

Almost all the text there is Jack's.  Stan wrote something cut off in the circle over the second panel and that circled comment about... huh...Alicia's "bosom" under the third panel.  The rest is Mr. Kirby.  There's an article about this issue (and #67) in the Kirby Collector, part of the "Failure to Communicate" series -- how Stan's dialogue stopped following Jack's notes beause Stan couldn't grasp what commentary Jack was trying to make on objectivism. 

[mtlevy1]

The FF66 page has Alicia and many mentions of Him ("He") - well bought!

[mtlevy1]

Earlier in the thread, the topic of bid increments was discussed - I won a $1K+ piece at $1 over the underbidder...when I was bidding I thought, hmm, let's add  $1 just in case...

[comix4fun]

8 hours ago, glendgold said:

You're adorable.

Almost all the text there is Jack's.  Stan wrote something cut off in the circle over the second panel and that circled comment about... huh...Alicia's "bosom" under the third panel.  The rest is Mr. Kirby.  There's an article about this issue (and #67) in the Kirby Collector, part of the "Failure to Communicate" series -- how Stan's dialogue stopped following Jack's notes beause Stan couldn't grasp what commentary Jack was trying to make on objectivism. 

Yes, I am.

That's awesome though about these issues. That makes those comments the most pencil work Jack did on that page then. Also the notes make it more desirable to me than artwork does. 

 

[glendgold]

2 hours ago, comix4fun said:

Yes, I am.

That's awesome though about these issues. That makes those comments the most pencil work Jack did on that page then. Also the notes make it more desirable to me than artwork does. 

 

One of the new Artists Editions has a curious detail. FF 33 -- the margin notes start out as Stan's and then, after the collage, continue as Kirby's.  I have no idea why.  John Morrow talked me down from the position that this was where they switched off their duties once and forever -- apparently there are earlier Kirby notes in some JIM stories. 

The author of the Failure to Communicate series -- apologies for not having his name handy -- makes a pretty good argument that this pair of issues, FF 66 and 67, was a kind of last straw for Kirby trying to get philosophical complexities past Stan.  If I recall correctly, Jack thought Him would destroy the scientists because they were imperfect.  Stan instead made them evil.  The margin notes should confirm that. 

[bluechip]

3 hours ago, glendgold said:

One of the new Artists Editions has a curious detail. FF 33 -- the margin notes start out as Stan's and then, after the collage, continue as Kirby's.  I have no idea why.  John Morrow talked me down from the position that this was where they switched off their duties once and forever -- apparently there are earlier Kirby notes in some JIM stories. 

The author of the Failure to Communicate series -- apologies for not having his name handy -- makes a pretty good argument that this pair of issues, FF 66 and 67, was a kind of last straw for Kirby trying to get philosophical complexities past Stan.  If I recall correctly, Jack thought Him would destroy the scientists because they were imperfect.  Stan instead made them evil.  The margin notes should confirm that. 

I'm sure I've seen fewer margin notes than you have, so I may be instructing the teacher here, but it seems clear that, between Stan and Jack, there was an ebb and flow, with Stan as editor giving Jack a lot of freedom, or pulling back, depending on the story.  I don't think there was a clear demarcation point like you might find between Lee and Ditko.    Margin notes provide some insight into how a story or a page was created, and a lot depends on whether writer and artist communicated verbally as well as on the page.   I have seen margin notes that read almost like an email chain between artist and writer/editor, with Stan using a note to ask a question and the artist writing replies that sometimes amounted to a one-word answer.   Meaning, apparently, that pages sometimes went back and forth, physically, or were used almost as posting boards, when one or the other was either at some distance or otherwise, unavailable to speak at that moment.  Most artists seemed to use margin when they felt something was needed to denote something like the passage of time or a change of setting, or to explain some detail which could be missed ("she can tell he's lying").   Jack's notes sometimes went further to include actual suggested dialogue, which Stan would use to varying degrees, sometimes putting it in, verbatim, and sometimes going a whole other way.   Stan would write notes that indicated changes in emotional state, or attitude, type of shot (CU or wide), etc, but it seems like when he wanted a big change, he would talk it out.  Sometimes the margins or backs of pages include crude drawings or layouts, but those appear seldom enough that it seems like when he wanted a big revision, he preferred to talk it out with the artist.  

Edited December 6, 2018 by bluechip

[John E.]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:50 PM, BCarter27 said:

At risk of picking on Bob further... In some cases it could be "box-ticking". Some people were discussing a few months ago how much weight generic pages from a first appearance issue can carry. Or when does the historical factor kick in over the aesthetics of a given piece? Opinions varied. Nyx 3 cover, for example?

That's fine, but please leave your bidding paddle at home.

I get pretty picky about Aparo eras. 70s Aparo vs Brave and Bold era vs post-Crisis Bats vs Knightfall and after. Personally, I'm out juuust before Knightfall as his art started slipping in quality. The post-Crisis fans have a few more years of collecting left in them. But I agree with you... I think the stuff before that will soften pretty soon.

I think this auction was a good indicator of what I mean. There were some C and D-level B&B pages that went for FMV or lower. Pent up demand for that earlier era has worn off just a smidge perhaps?

Batman #489 penciled and inked by Aparo looks pretty bad. The book is considered "pre-Knightfall" so I don't know if the weak art would affect the price if pages ever went up for auction. I won't even get into the blackhole that is Batman #497, but #498 is Aparo inked by Rick Burchett, a page of which was up for grabs at Hake's last auction, looks more like Aparo. Eighties Aparo is more my bag though.

[John E.]

Well, for you 90s kids: 

I was watching the Joe Jusko Marvel Masterpieces pretty closely. Despite being 2nd/3rd tier characters, I thought the Darkhawk was going to end between $2k-$2.5K and the Warbird, dunno, maybe just over $1k? I was surprised to see Darkhawk end at $1600 and Warbird a surprising $1,700+. What was interesting was that before the action picked up, Darkhawk was sitting at $705 and Warbird at $300. Talk about deception. Not sure why the little love for the gold standard of trading card art.  End of the year fatigue? Small art? 2nd/3rd tier characters? Small art? Mister Fantastic was recently up on eBay for $3200 with no takers with relisting after relisting.

Not 90s, but that Tim Bradstreet Punisher cover was up on eBay for $25K. It ended at $1700. Not even sure if that price even recouped the original cost.

[vodou]

4 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Not 90s, but that Tim Bradstreet Punisher cover was up on eBay for $25K. It ended at $1700. Not even sure if that price even recouped the original cost.

Links, images? Not what I follow but I'm dying to see what this looks like.

[John E.]

1 minute ago, vodou said:

Links, images? Not what I follow but I'm dying to see what this looks like.

The layout is nicely designed (CLink even called it “museum quality”) but at the end of the day, no Punisher skull or full-figure Wolverine, I guess.

[Hekla]

41 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Well, for you 90s kids: 

I was watching the Joe Jusko Marvel Masterpieces pretty closely. Despite being 2nd/3rd tier characters, I thought the Darkhawk was going to end between $2k-$2.5K and the Warbird, dunno, maybe just over $1k? I was surprised to see Darkhawk end at $1600 and Warbird a surprising $1,700+. What was interesting was that before the action picked up, Darkhawk was sitting at $705 and Warbird at $300. Talk about deception. Not sure why the little love for the gold standard of trading card art.  End of the year fatigue? Small art? 2nd/3rd tier characters? Small art? Mister Fantastic was recently up on eBay for $3200 with no takers with relisting after relisting.

Not 90s, but that Tim Bradstreet Punisher cover was up on eBay for $25K. It ended at $1700. Not even sure if that price even recouped the original cost.

 

Bradstreet Punisher covers can be bought for ~$1000 from Spashpage

http://www.splashpageart.com/ArtistGalleryTitleDetails.asp?ArtistId=83&Mag=Punisher+Max&From=Title

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Hekla

[vodou]

It's alright but I'm not even seeing $1700 for(e)arms and claws out. A fool and his money...

[John E.]

1 hour ago, Hekla said:

 

Bradstreet Punisher covers can be bought for ~$1000 from Spashpage

http://www.splashpageart.com/ArtistGalleryTitleDetails.asp?ArtistId=83&Mag=Punisher+Max&From=Title

 

I think the Wolverine/punisher cover is the better cover when compared to the remaining stock, it’s just that I’m not convinced that the original buyer, whomever that might be, paid less than $1500 for it. In other words, there wasn’t much, if any, appreciation on that, or as someone hoped. 

[Dick O.]

1 hour ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Well, for you 90s kids: 

I was watching the Joe Jusko Marvel Masterpieces pretty closely. Despite being 2nd/3rd tier characters, I thought the Darkhawk was going to end between $2k-$2.5K and the Warbird, dunno, maybe just over $1k? I was surprised to see Darkhawk end at $1600 and Warbird a surprising $1,700+. What was interesting was that before the action picked up, Darkhawk was sitting at $705 and Warbird at $300. Talk about deception. Not sure why the little love for the gold standard of trading card art.  End of the year fatigue? Small art? 2nd/3rd tier characters? Small art? Mister Fantastic was recently up on eBay for $3200 with no takers with relisting after relisting.

The CLink Jusko Masterpieces went cheap; my buddy was thrilled to pick up Darkhawk at that price 

Another friend bought the $3.2k Mr Fantastic on eBay.