Heritage sales tax impacting values? 2 2

[path4play]

14 hours ago, batman_fan said:

At a high level, requiring online businesses to collect sales tax is a more fair system. I know in the past I have bought various stuff on line because buying local adds more than 8% to the cost versus amazon prime not charging tax and “free” shipping. 

1. Shouldn't add tax paid to GPA - its not truly part of the value of the comic.

2. I agree with online taxing in general however, it does turn me off a bit to the auction, human nature, can't help it.  Perhaps this slows the churn of flipping (like a bit of sandpaper under an ice skate?)

3. Out of curiosity because maybe I'm getting to be an older timer but I always thought used/old resold items like garage sale etc., were sales tax exempt. A single search brought up Pennsylvania, which was interesting.

https://revenue-pa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1864/~/are-antiques%2C-commemorative-coins%2C-and-flags-subject-to-sales-tax%3F

T--Antiques (tax)

NT--Coins, investment (numismatic coins and legal tender)  (no tax)

T--Stamps, cancelled U.S.A. stamps and all foreign stamps are taxable on the full purchase price (tax)
NT--Tanning booth fees (no tax)

Conclusion = in Pennsylvania you can maintain an orange, roasted turkey color as a gold bug with a nice bullion retirement tax free.  For all others, $$.

Edited November 26, 2018 by path4play

[dannyboy]

I simply shake my head in disbelief at all of the rationalizing and debating about what should and should be counted in the cost of a comic.  People, please.  I pay an amount for something.  It's what I paid.  It doesn't matter to a purchaser if the money goes to a company's rent, a company's salaries, to the actual owner of the consignment, to the state collecting sales tax, or anything else.  How is this confusing?  If I am willing to pay $1000 for a comic book, then that's what should be reported.  What I paid.  To arbitrarily lessen that amount because some piece of the $1000 is going to a tax collector makes no sense.  It MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.  If I'm willing to pay $1000 for something, then that's what it's worth to me.  There is nothing more to discuss.  If GPA portends to report what comic books have sold for, then they should report what they sold for and not some arbitrarily reduced figure.  This really isn't complicated.

The American culture of adding sales tax at the register has contributed to this nonsensical discussion.  We think of the "cost" of an item and the "tax" on the item as separate entities.  It's really a brilliant piece of PR by the state.  Notice when you buy a candy bar in the UK that's advertised at 2 pounds, lo and behold, you pay 2 pounds at the register.  Not that they don't have sales tax - it's just included in the advertised price.  I guess we should just deduct the buyer's and seller's premiums as well from a GPA reported sale since they're not the amount you're actually bidding.  And if you're not accounting for the premiums, the sales tax, the shipping, etc. when you bid on something at HA or elsewhere, well....you know what they say about a fool and his money.

[MrBedrock]

3 minutes ago, dannyboy said:

I simply shake my head in disbelief at all of the rationalizing and debating about what should and should be counted in the cost of a comic.  People, please.  I pay an amount for something.  It's what I paid.  It doesn't matter to a purchaser if the money goes to a company's rent, a company's salaries, to the actual owner of the consignment, to the state collecting sales tax, or anything else.  How is this confusing?  If I am willing to pay $1000 for a comic book, then that's what should be reported.  What I paid.  To arbitrarily lessen that amount because some piece of the $1000 is going to a tax collector makes no sense.  It MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.  If I'm willing to pay $1000 for something, then that's what it's worth to me.  There is nothing more to discuss.  If GPA portends to report what comic books have sold for, then they should report what they sold for and not some arbitrarily reduced figure.  This really isn't complicated.

The American culture of adding sales tax at the register has contributed to this nonsensical discussion.  We think of the "cost" of an item and the "tax" on the item as separate entities.  It's really a brilliant piece of PR by the state.  Notice when you buy a candy bar in the UK that's advertised at 2 pounds, lo and behold, you pay 2 pounds at the register.  Not that they don't have sales tax - it's just included in the advertised price.  I guess we should just deduct the buyer's and seller's premiums as well from a GPA reported sale since they're not the amount you're actually bidding.  And if you're not accounting for the premiums, the sales tax, the shipping, etc. when you bid on something at HA or elsewhere, well....you know what they say about a fool and his money.

So if you are willing to fly down here and buy some of my comics should we go ahead and add your travel expenses to the value of the comics?

[path4play]

6 hours ago, dannyboy said:

I simply shake my head in disbelief at all of the rationalizing and debating about what should and should be counted in the cost of a comic.  People, please.  I pay an amount for something.  It's what I paid.  It doesn't matter to a purchaser if the money goes to a company's rent, a company's salaries, to the actual owner of the consignment, to the state collecting sales tax, or anything else.  How is this confusing?  If I am willing to pay $1000 for a comic book, then that's what should be reported.  What I paid.  To arbitrarily lessen that amount because some piece of the $1000 is going to a tax collector makes no sense.  It MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.  If I'm willing to pay $1000 for something, then that's what it's worth to me.  There is nothing more to discuss.  If GPA portends to report what comic books have sold for, then they should report what they sold for and not some arbitrarily reduced figure.  This really isn't complicated.

The American culture of adding sales tax at the register has contributed to this nonsensical discussion.  We think of the "cost" of an item and the "tax" on the item as separate entities.  It's really a brilliant piece of PR by the state.  Notice when you buy a candy bar in the UK that's advertised at 2 pounds, lo and behold, you pay 2 pounds at the register.  Not that they don't have sales tax - it's just included in the advertised price.  I guess we should just deduct the buyer's and seller's premiums as well from a GPA reported sale since they're not the amount you're actually bidding.  And if you're not accounting for the premiums, the sales tax, the shipping, etc. when you bid on something at HA or elsewhere, well....you know what they say about a fool and his money.

I should have clarified, its clearly part of the "price" a buyer now pays to own the book. 

However, I don't consider it part of the "value" of said book.  Shipping for example, is also part of the "price."  But the fact that I paid someone to ship it to me, then I paid to ship it back and forth to and from CGC doesn't inherently or directly add anything to the "value."  If indeed the price of shipping increased the value, I'd do signature confirmation and $10,000 insurance each way (or better yet, drive it there myself).

The current value of my home doesn't include interest expense that add to buyer total costs over 30 years etc.,. In fact, high local real estate taxes could actually negatively impact the value of my home (by reducing demand as buyers shift to other markets/cities/counties).

Taken to extreme, different sales tax rates in different states would create "differential comic values" and Overstreet price guide should add a state value adjustment grid - might as well toss in the variable of foreign exchange rates for good measure.  

I acknowledge this is from a collector perspective.  As a business, you would pass that expense on to the consumer (directly like how a U.S. sales tax works) or if the market doesn't accept, reduce price (lower margins) to meet the new demand.

Its hard to imagine any scenario where higher taxes would increase any value?

Edited November 26, 2018 by path4play

[Sqeggs]

On 11/25/2018 at 4:25 PM, MrBedrock said:

I agree...but the original question was should the sales tax be reported to GPA as part the sale price to figure value.

As a retailer I wish I could have a dollar for every time someone asked me knock off the tax. I  don't get to keep the tax. I am responsible for paying it. I would get fined if I were caught sidetracking it. I know it affects my sales. It affects any sale in any line of business. But since we are dealing in comics, "and nobody takes those seriously", I am expected to just not charge the tax or I don't get the business. And if I say that I can't just knock the tax off (effectively discounting an additional 8.25%) people get all indignant. Walk into the local grocery store and try that shiznit.

My grocery no longer sells comics.  Stopped a couple of years ago. 

[nearmint]

On 11/25/2018 at 2:41 PM, Dark Knight said:

I dont think Comicconnect is charging sales tax, just a % if you use a cc to pay. 

Credit card fees are charged to the seller on ComicConnect, not the buyer.  That's my one problem with CC, as a seller, you never know if you're getting 90% or 87% of the hammer price. 

[Sqeggs]

2 minutes ago, nearmint said:

On 11/25/2018 at 5:41 PM, Dark Knight said:

I dont think Comicconnect is charging sales tax, just a % if you use a cc to pay. 

Credit card fees are charged to the seller on ComicConnect, not the buyer.  That's my one problem with CC, as a seller, you never know if you're getting 90% or 87% of the hammer price. 

Right.  It's CL that hits you with the charge if you pay via cc.  My understanding is that's why they have you send payment to an Illinois address even though their main office is in Maine.

[adamstrange]

On 11/26/2018 at 1:31 AM, MrBedrock said:

So if you are willing to fly down here and buy some of my comics should we go ahead and add your travel expenses to the value of the comics?

Depends.  Would you forego the cost of labor, storage and capital in the price you charge?

[jimbo_7071]

On 11/25/2018 at 6:53 AM, jhm said:

This has been bugging me since receiving my latest invoice from the last auction. The book below could cost some folks $935 more than what I ended up with as the final hammer ($13,800).

Backstory: I recently moved from IL to NC. I didn't yet have my NC sales tax number on file with Heritage, but I had changed my address to receive catalogs. I got my invoice and it had an additional $935 for sales tax. Since I use my own system, I saw this book pop up on my GoCollect watch list and it hit me... we have no idea who does and does not pay sales tax. I checked my GPA account and apparently they don't either.

Here's the thing - I would have paid a few grand more for this book, so if the confusion of the sales tax didn't flesh out, I would just pay it. But then the world would think I paid $13,800 instead of $14,735... that's pretty significant difference! And even though I have no intentions of selling any time soon, I'm well aware that the price I paid will be a consideration to the next buyer.... whenever that day may come.

Most of us use past sales history to determine the prices we're willing to pay at these auctions. And Heritage is a special player in that they get great GA inventory and generally command top prices (at least for the stuff I hunt down). All while charing a lot of folks sales tax now.

So, is it possible that by not factoring sales tax into sale history that we're artificially keeping valuations down?

Part of me thinks "Phew! Please keep them as low as possible!" but that doesn't feel good for the hobby as a whole. Or who knows - maybe we all have sales tax numbers and it's meaningless.

At the end of the day, I was super happy to land this beauty  I hope the colors pop in-hand as much as they do in the pictures!

If you have no intention of selling the book any time soon, aren't you required to pay sales tax regardless of whether you have a sales tax number? I'm not a dealer, but I was under the impression that only items purchased with the intention of being entered into a dealer's inventory for immediate resale were exempt from sales tax.

[adamstrange]

On 11/25/2018 at 6:53 AM, jhm said:

 

I don't think this thread has anything to do with sales tax.  It's just a way to show off this awesome book!

[Naphtha]

One thing I don't understand is the fact that nobody is talking about how the sales tax collected is based on the state its shipping to, not the state the company is based in. Also, these sales tax laws only recently went into affect so how hard would it be for a company to charge taxes and neglect claiming them. For instance, the "nexus tax" law was passed by the supreme court in 7/18 and states are just now implementing them in the last couple of months. Why am I'm getting charged by Heritage before Amazon decides to start charging sales tax? This doesn't seem right.

The sales tax that I'm paying is for the state I live in and applicable laws aren't even effective yet.